how you use the tools depends on the situation and needs, not only on what they are intended for. and the programming language IS the tools
Thats the problem that us people who like to help others face. You stated earlier that you don’t want to learn how to use the tools, you just want to be fed code.how you use the tools depends on the situation and needs, not only on what they are intended for. and the programming language IS the tools
Is there an official application process?
I have started to supply some code fragments at first to give an indication of where i think the poster should be looking. I certainly don't want to do the code for them. Not unless it is something i want to to try and code myself like the recent diagonal movement speed and trail questions i looked at recently. That's kinda the point i guess. Sometimes i'm learning as well by helping.Thats the problem that us people who like to help others face. You stated earlier that you don’t want to learn how to use the tools, you just want to be fed code.
If that’s how you choose to use your tools, the people who want to help you will soon dry up. Not only that, you’ll end up being that guy with 1500 posts that doesn’t know the basics of how surfaces work (as a random example ).
Is there an official application process?
Serious Question. I'd be interested in the general consensus of opinion.help means the person with the problem can now work on his project after your guidence, so the helper`s role is a relief not some savior as you portray it.
I think there's no correct answer for this, it depends on the situation you find. If I'm positive that the code I provide will be understood without having to follow up with a line by line tutorial, then I see no problem in just hading out the code. Often though, not knowing who I'm talking to and his skilset, I tend to just hint at the functions or architecture required to solve the problem and see where that takes the conversation. Sometimes it's enough, sometimes it's not, and the follow up can be some more advices or again just some GML code.Serious Question. I'd be interested in the general consensus of opinion.
Is it better to help the poster by giving the code they need to resolve their problem or helping them by giving them the advice they need to guide them to a learned solution?
Might be considered off topic so apologies in advance.
take what i write as literal, not with the company of your asumptions. OP this is what is happening to me from day one, i say somthing, people dont get it, they assume all kind of nonsense that i never sayd, and i have to explain myself over and over again which actually makes things worse...So we're all just code bots? Employed to print out code for people who are less able? I mean, honestly, this is exactly the type of situation that frustrates me. If I'm going to spend time helping someone, it's usually not going to be just typing out the code that they need but don't know, it's going to be making sure they understand where they went wrong, why they went wrong and, in cases where I see a fault in the foundation, why they need to rebuild the foundation. If I don't do that, they're just going to be back the next day with a new problem that stems from the same misunderstandings, like @TsukaYuriko said. Teach a person to fish and all that.
i shouldn't really be intervening with something like this, but i will, just to hopefully clear the air i guess.take what i write as literal, not with the company of your asumptions. OP this is what is happening to me from day one, i say somthing, people dont get it, they assume all kind of nonsense that i never sayd, and i have to explain myself over and over again which actually makes things worse...
Keep in mind that as Admin I have your GMC life in my hands...In unrelated news, I'm keeping careful track of all in this thread who argues for being polite and not aggressive or antagonistic, so that I can compare that with their actual behavior in all other threads, and will report all instances of the behavior they argue against but exhibit themselves.*
A community thrives on characters and individuals, and I'd hate people to think they have to be a robot when they reply. I would much rather people be natural and be themselves around here than have people thinking this was a police-state where their every word is being watched for any sign of dissent from the norm!
A community thrives on characters and individuals, and I'd hate people to think they have to be a robot when they reply.
I'd hate people to think they have to be a robot
thats not really how it goes, the helpful people are usually people who have done what the person needing help asks for, if they havent done it, then you get pretentious posts about structure and all kind of nonsense and its usually these "helpers" that complain about giving code. ofcorse im talking about specific that the person may need, like collision code etc. im not talking about a whole system. even if the helper has done and can do said system he wont provide code, thats not really helping.i shouldn't really be intervening with something like this, but i will, just to hopefully clear the air i guess.
this incident in itself isn't quite what i was talking about in the original post, and i can't be expected to step in because this happened ( even though it happened in my thread ).
what happened here is just a good example of misunderstanding, and i think it comes from both sides.
refreshertowel misinterpreted what you were saying, yes, but i also do think what you were suggesting was no small task in itself.
i see what you're saying in that if code is what somebody needs, then code is something that they should eventually get, but it isn't quite that easy.
let me give a very quick summary of what happens if a user expects / is looking for code:
another user has to piece together the request, and figure out a system that does what's being asked.
that user then has to figure out if such a system is even possible ( which it usually is ), and how to achieve it.
the same user then ( potentially ) has to write up a code that does all of that, and if they aren't confident, bug test it to ensure it works.
once all that is said and done, which could take anywhere from 10 minutes to several hours ( not that people want to spend that long on it, let's be fair ), they pass it on.
the original poster then copies the code, which took approximately 30 minutes let's just say, and pastes it into their project, which takes no more than 5 minutes if they're extremely slow.
there's a vast imbalance of work there, and it favours the original poster. they get to continue with their passion project, while the other user picks up their own life where it left off.
i'm not at all saying that we shouldn't provide code, i just think it's important to realise that it's impractical to provide it to someone who isn't willing to learn.
this isn't to assume that you yourself aren't willing to learn, i'm sure you are, i just don't know you and i'd hate to make an assumption like that.
all i'm trying to say is that offering advice should be the expected maximum. if someone is willing to provide working code, it's something not to take lightly.
i do agree you were subjected to an unfair assumption there, but i think the point refreshertowel was trying to make was lost in tone perhaps.
hopefully this doesn't come across in some kind of mean or condescending way, it's just the unfortunate reality of programming.
my point does still apply even here though. any amount of troubleshooting can be quite taxing.thats not really how it goes, the helpful people are usually people who have done what the person needing help asks for, if they havent done it, then you get pretentious posts about structure and all kind of nonsense and its usually these "helpers" that complain about giving code. ofcorse im talking about specific that the person may need, like collision code etc. im not talking about a whole system. even if the helper has done and can do said system he wont provide code, thats not really helping.
so im talking about when your writing a function and it doesnt work and you dont know why it doesnt work, then you come here and ask. in this case any help, that fixes the issue on spot is wellcome.
if person in need asks for a whole platformer then he shuld pay for that unless someone wuld do it for free.
so yeah, if your helpers start beating around the bush then they have no idea whats the problem about. they may code or whatever, but practice is diffrent.
Are you sure you want us to do that? Many of the words you use don't even exist in the English vocabulary.take what i write as literal, not with the company of your asumptions. OP this is what is happening to me from day one, i say somthing, people dont get it, they assume all kind of nonsense that i never sayd, and i have to explain myself over and over again which actually makes things worse...
Serious question though. Seeing as you feel so passionate about this may we pick one of your questions you have posted in the past as a case study, without fear of Moderators deleting the post, as we would have your permission?help means the person with the problem can now work on his project after your guidence, so the helper`s role is a relief not some savior as you portray it.
Think of the Programming forums like a charity. If that charity is handing out free cooking ingredients, don't walk in expecting to get a free fully prepared pizza. What you want may not necessarily be what's on offer... and the charity is not going to bend to precisely cover your desires.
my love, but its a charity non the less so you come and expect somthing, or you come to offer somthing/share somthing. you dont go to the hospital to have dinner or to a resturant to get medical attention, altho there are cases in which these can be true.
what point? your just being dramatic thats why i wuldnt care about what you say. this is nothing but spam now.
What works for you isn't necessarily going to work for others, rather it will put off some who just want to learn and have a good time making games.I like the cranky old timers here who are forward and to the point.
They're the reason I learned so much from this forum, honestly!
So because programming is off putting for a beginner they should just learn to accept off putting attitudes?Sure, they can seem off-putting at times, but so is learning to program.
Just because someone is older or more experienced does not give them the right to be condescending and aggressive, it's not cute or endearing. All it does is make people feel like they are walking on eggshellsif you show a penchant for genuinely wanting to know something, they and other "forum grouches" are some of the best people to ask.
It's as easy as you choose it to be. Don't forget that the choice is always there. If you want to accept that you can only post in a manner that limits, because of how the post made you feel, then your feelings will always be at the mercy of how someone else made you feel: affecting your posting attitude.It ain't always easy though.
It doesn't go unnoticed by the forum grouches either. It goes a long way for someone when they get spotted as someone who genuinely wants to improve their skills, especially when they show appreciation for others helping them.I know this is a a touch off topic now, but frosty is the a fantastic resource, and if you show a penchant for genuinely wanting to know something, they and other "forum grouches" are some of the best people to ask.
i don't particularly have much to say to this point. it's great that the approach worked for you, but we do all have to keep in mind that it won't work for everyone.I like the cranky old timers here who are forward and to the point.
They're the reason I learned so much from this forum, honestly!
Sure, they can seem off-putting at times, but so is learning to program. Everything has obstacles and learning by being spoonfed answers isn't a great way to go about it.
that was actually one of the later posts i saw prior to making this thread, and the replies on there were overwhelmingly helpful in different ways.There was another thread about "How to become a good programmer" and one comment made that I agree with was to "think about what you want to say before you type". That may come across as harsh to some people or more of a "Why is that relevant? I just need help!?" but that IS helping. Everyone should (hopefully) want to become a better coder, and be able to think for themselves, but sometimes thought is not put into a programming help topic request and I guess that can annoy some people.
If you're making yourself think about what the problem is, what you did to try to fix it, why it should or shouldn't work with the code you already have, then you might think of something that will fix it, before ever finishing the post. That's happened to me several times and I feel like that makes me a better problem solver, which is what I see programming as.
I can't stand it when people are overtly rude without reason though. Like a previous poster put here, you have to keep things in context. Is this the same guy that has made 100 topics, who has ignored multiple requests for him to read the manual and just wants the code to be handed to him or is this a brand new user who is completely new to GameMaker and needs a few pointers in the right direction?
I got some useful help from this forum when I started out and the only bad experience I've ever had was in the Discord channel, but it was enough to put me off ever using that channel again, I have to admit. I even managed to be the "Rude Guy" in my own channel one time I think, or at least from the other persons point of view. He would ask me questions and I would ask him questions in return, which frustrated him. I was trying to get him to think but I guess he didn't see it that way.
this is almost entirely justified. sometimes an appeal for help is an uphill climb from the beginning, and you get exhausted just by the sight of it.The only questions I get tired of seeing is "can I make android or ios game and publish to google play and app store with GMS 1.4" and "my code doesn't work please help" without posting any of the code or reproducibles. The rest qualifies for needing a kind response in my book. Well be nice, regardless, but while still discouraging those two questions from being continually asked, putting it nicely. It ain't always easy though.
i don't mean to sound like i want to single you out here, but so far you seem to be the only person so dedicated to say 'hold on, this thread is completely wrong and offends me'.Here's why I'm still not warming up to this topic: Why put all the onus on people providing help on the forum, and virtually none on people on the asking side?
Yeah that is about how I feel too. Plus while I'm glad this conversation is happening I think there isn't as much of a problem as some in this topic feel there is.There are limits to how much i agree with both sides of this discussion. I'm somewhere in between to be honest...
True but if a asker failed to do this that shouldn't warrant a disrespectful response, assuming the asker is being polite.For example, having traced through one's logic first is a reasonable responsibility before posting a topic.
This is a excellent idea, I support that 1000 percent.Perhaps a prominent tutorial on how to trace GML
I think a responder who is feeling burnout should just stop answering questions for awhile, I don't think any responders should be answering questions when feeling that way as it won't bewill help with responder burnout by making the responsibility to self-evaluate feasible to fulfill.
I don't recall anyone in this topic advocating for responders to cater to accommodate a askers every want. Nobody is saying responders should offer code handouts or to take abuse from askers.and how it's our responsibility to do (or not do) this and that to accommodate their every want.