Development A Few Questions.

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T. Edwards

Guest
Hello all,

I am a student at Glendale Community College. I am currently taking a certificate course for Game Technology and then moving onto Game Development I & II.

So here are my questions:

1. I know many people say a degree is not needed for game development as long as you can show you know what you are doing. Should I just complete the certificate course and then go on my way or continue on with Game Development I & II? I have already paid for the certificate course and purchased the required books so I will be finishing it. (Just as a note all 3 utilize GMS)

2. Is GameMaker: Studio worth it? Since GCC utilizes it for all of its game courses I figure it is, but would I be better off dropping the courses and focusing on Unity or C++?

3. For my courses I was required to pay for GMS along with the Android export. What other exports would you suggest? I don't have a MAC or iPhone so as of now I think the iOS export is not needed, but I am leaning towards the HTML5 export.

If you could help out with these questions I would appreciate it. Thank you in advance.
 
A

Aura

Guest
You're not bound to get a certificate in order to be able to program and earn a living. But that depends on whether you'd freelance or work as an employee in a company. Some clients won't want you to program in GM:S, some of them won't mind what you use; so it really depends on who you plan to work for.

Learning multiple languages does no harm to your career as a programmer; using GML doesn't limit your abilities, using only GML might. You may learn other languages, but that's not mandatory; you'd still get a clientele if you use only GML.

HTML5 target has great potential and audience to earn you a living. But you can target multiple platforms as you see fit.
 
G

Guest User

Guest
A.S. please note that this is all just my opinion, based on my experience.

1. A degree is a plus and all, but I'm going to reiterate that indeed it's not always necessary to have one. If you've paid already and have the time, energy and will to finish, go ahead and complete all of it; if not, don't. Comes down to personal preference.

2. Game Maker is a very powerful engine for 2D games, and people have made quite a bundle with it. However, it lacks sorely when dealing with 3D, in such a case I'd possibly recommend a different IDE.

3. Personal preference. What platforms would you like to release on?
 
B

BoredMormon

Guest
1. Why not do both? There is no reason why you can't go make games in your spare time while you study.

2. Plenty of comercial games are made in Game Maker Studio. Plenty are made in Unreal and Unity too. If your focus is getting a job, be familiar in all three. If you want to make games on your own, knowing one well is enough.

3. Buy whatever exports you need for your target platform. If another sale comes up, then buy the rest.
 
T

T. Edwards

Guest
Alright thank you all, you've really shed some light on the subject. I figured I'll finish my courses as you all suggest because it may help in the future. I think while I am completing my courses I'll focus on GameMaker: Studio and GML and once I they are complete I'll move onto other languages from there. I'll talk more with my professor today and see what he suggests I learn after college.
 
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NPT

Guest
1. I know many people say a degree is not needed for game development as long as you can show you know what you are doing. Should I just complete the certificate course and then go on my way or continue on with Game Development I & II? I have already paid for the certificate course and purchased the required books so I will be finishing it. (Just as a note all 3 utilize GMS)
Most here who devalue formal education probably haven't been in a position where they go through hundreds of resumes.

When I go through dozens or even hundreds of resumes, spend no more than 10 - 30 seconds a piece. I scan education and experience (relavent to the position I'm hiring for). Almost always, those without formal education end up on the cutting room floor.


3. For my courses I was required to pay for GMS along with the Android export. What other exports would you suggest? I don't have a MAC or iPhone so as of now I think the iOS export is not needed, but I am leaning towards the HTML5 export.
The humble bundle allows you to buy almost all exports for $15. Hurry, it's almost over.

https://forum.yoyogames.com/index.php?threads/humble-gamemaker-bundle.6556/
 
T

T. Edwards

Guest
Most here who devalue formal education probably haven't been in a position where they go through hundreds of resumes.

When I go through dozens or even hundreds of resumes, spend no more than 10 - 30 seconds a piece. I scan education and experience (relavent to the position I'm hiring for). Almost always, those without formal education end up on the cutting room floor.




The humble bundle allows you to buy almost all exports for $15. Hurry, it's almost over.

https://forum.yoyogames.com/index.php?threads/humble-gamemaker-bundle.6556/
Just picked it up. Thanks!
 

Mike

nobody important
GMC Elder
Most here who devalue formal education probably haven't been in a position where they go through hundreds of resumes.
When I go through dozens or even hundreds of resumes, spend no more than 10 - 30 seconds a piece. I scan education and experience (relavent to the position I'm hiring for). Almost always, those without formal education end up on the cutting room floor.
Hate to disagree.... the number of folk I see with a degree that know nothing FAR outweighs those who can do actual stuff. Given a working demo, and a good understanding of the test we put out, I couldn't care less if they have a degree. Understanding, talent along with pure desire and drive to get into the industry are what employers are after. I've hired quite a few folk over the years who have shown they know stuff and have a genuine interest. MANY folk with degrees just want a job, and all the degree tells me is, they can finish a degree.

All that said... if you've paid for it - do it! Chances are you WILL learn stuff that will help you in the future. Degrees also make it MUCH easier to move country, without moving abroad can be tricky. So it's worth doing for a few reasons, but none of them are your ability to do the job. While doing your course, play with tech at home, make games, demos - these will be your key to putting yourself above everyone else, with or without a degree.
 

FrostyCat

Redemption Seeker
I'm sure, being a GameMaker forum, you'll get a resounding 'yes' here. :D
Not from me.

GMS simply doesn't have enough industry acceptance to be a worthwhile item on a resume, at least for a dedicated coding position where a framework/language is specified. For these, a project in that framework/language is the ultimate trump card. Because of all the blunders GMS made in its early days, nowadays you'll be seeing Unity as that framework/language way more often than GMS.

Another issue I'm worried about is the quality of education that the original poster would get if he sticks with GM the whole hog. Most college courses on GM I've seen were taught by instructors whose strong suits are elsewhere (most likely Java or Unity) and would invariably teach techniques that just don't work on GMS (many are just too OOP- and REPL-wired to adapt). They also tend to teach 8.1, or worse, attempt to use 8.1 materials (e.g. Apprentice/Companion) as-is with GMS.

When I hear about people getting industry jobs (not with YoYo or from the Collaboration forum) after showing GM work, they were overwhelmingly design positions where mechanics and work ethics overpower the choice of language/engine, or freelance positions where the applicant has the carte blanche on the language/engine. I can count on one hand how many coder positions I've seen outside GM boards asking for GML as a credential.

While the GMC is meant to promote GM, overstating the potency of GM on a resume does nobody any favours. Having GMS projects will help with design and contracting positions, but not most game coding positions. The original poster should switch to Unity ASAP if the latter is his goal.

Hate to disagree.... the number of folk I see with a degree that know nothing FAR outweighs those who can do actual stuff. Given a working demo, and a good understanding of the test we put out, I couldn't care less if they have a degree. Understanding, talent along with pure desire and drive to get into the industry are what employers are after. I've hired quite a few folk over the years who have shown they know stuff and have a genuine interest. MANY folk with degrees just want a job, and all the degree tells me is, they can finish a degree.
The biggest problem with demos is that it takes much longer to evaluate a demo than it takes to scan for a credential. In small-scale competition (i.e. no more than 20) or post-interview selection, that's where demos shine. But with any more in the pool than that, most HR staff just don't have the time.
 

Mike

nobody important
GMC Elder
Not from me.
The biggest problem with demos is that it takes much longer to evaluate a demo than it takes to scan for a credential. In small-scale competition (i.e. no more than 20) or post-interview selection, that's where demos shine. But with any more in the pool than that, most HR staff just don't have the time.
While a game that you've done a small part in is hard to judge, a demo - be that game or tech demo, that you've written yourself, speaks volumes. For programmer CVs we get them directly, HR would never know what to look for - especially when dealing with coding answers. If HR ever try to filter coder CVS, slap them hard :)
 
S

StuffandThings85

Guest
A degree or certificate alone won't really get you a job, just helps your resume stand out a little. An actual portfolio with works you've created would be a much better way for the company to see what you're capable of. It would be a good idea to continue your education with regards to programming, so you can use that added knowledge to your advantage.
 
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NPT

Guest
Hate to disagree.... the number of folk I see with a degree that know nothing FAR outweighs those who can do actual stuff. Given a working demo, and a good understanding of the test we put out, I couldn't care less if they have a degree. Understanding, talent along with pure desire and drive to get into the industry are what employers are after. I've hired quite a few folk over the years who have shown they know stuff and have a genuine interest. MANY folk with degrees just want a job, and all the degree tells me is, they can finish a degree.

All that said... if you've paid for it - do it! Chances are you WILL learn stuff that will help you in the future. Degrees also make it MUCH easier to move country, without moving abroad can be tricky. So it's worth doing for a few reasons, but none of them are your ability to do the job. While doing your course, play with tech at home, make games, demos - these will be your key to putting yourself above everyone else, with or without a degree.
And this is why I said, "I scan education and experience (relevant to the position I'm hiring for)"

Let's assume you have 100 candidates, who have submitted some kind of playable demo portfolio, and it takes 15 minutes to download/play and evaluate a playable demo.

That's 25 hours. I guarantee, that's not happening by most employers, especially if they've got any size.

The second problem with not having any formal accreditations is the later stages of ones career, when one wants to transition from worker bee to management. And as much as I disagree with this, companies, especially larger ones are demanding degrees.
 

Mike

nobody important
GMC Elder
And this is why I said, "I scan education and experience (relevant to the position I'm hiring for)"
Let's assume you have 100 candidates, who have submitted some kind of playable demo portfolio, and it takes 15 minutes to download/play and evaluate a playable demo.
That's 25 hours. I guarantee, that's not happening by most employers, especially if they've got any size.
The second problem with not having any formal accreditations is the later stages of ones career, when one wants to transition from worker bee to management. And as much as I disagree with this, companies, especially larger ones are demanding degrees.
See, your assuming everyone has demos. The reality is no one has. Every CV we get - every one, has a degree. It means nothing these days. Getting a demo is now unique. Sure there are a few games courses and these guys will have team projects this, and I wrote this as part of my course work that. But how many work on things on their own? Do stuff from the sheer interest of doing new and interesting things? No one.

I've had a handful of non-qualified folk come through, ones who game good demos, who bought their own devkits to play with. These have, without exception been some of the best coders I've worked with. There is no substitute for raw desire and talent, and having a degree doesn't give you this. We've had countless applicants that are after a 9 to 5 job that pays as much as possible, they tend to be useless - but have degrees.

When everyone has one, no one really cares.

As to things like management. If you're good enough at your job, you'll get training. Larger companies - that aren't games companies, will care. What it will give you is a great safety net - and these days, that's really important! if you have one and leave games - or can't get a job, other companies outside the sector will take more notice, without it'll be tough.

Also aside from a couple of highers - both art related, I have zero higher education. I got in, and continue to get by, on educating myself on a daily basis - that drive and desire that I was on about, I have it, and I found it in others. They always make the best game devs.


Lastly.... getting into game development is hard, staying in is harder. So I'll say again - those degrees are a great safety net and should be valued as such.
 
T

T. Edwards

Guest
I just finished my first official day of coding with GML in my class. Wow! It was so easy to understand and the time flew. I'm at home now with the software open not wanting to close it.

So for the first day we learned all about the different resource types, went onto clean and commented code, worked with variables, player movements, collisions, and some minor level design.

I cannot believe I didn't try this software sooner.

My professor suggested I complete all three courses and get my degree as, like @Mike said, it would be a safety net. He said what I do after college is entirely up to me. He works solely with GameMaker: Studio because he prefers the indie side of development (I guess he has been using GameMaker since v7) and he's made quite a living with the software, and that if I stick with it I can do the same.

So, I've decided to listen to him and stick with the software for now. Maybe one day in the future I may further my education on my own but I am hooked on GameMaker: Studio.

Just as a side note, he gave us our first big assignment. We have to, in the spirit of Halloween, come up with a horror genre game and develop it by the 28th of October. Obviously I have to create something that I feel I can actually accomplish and am working on a design document as I write this.

I'm overjoyed that I am taking this class and using this software. Also @Mike I agree with what you are saying. You can tell there are a number of students in the course that are just there for a job, but maybe 5-6 others (including myself) had a look of desire on their faces when we finally opened up the GameMaker: Studio software for the first time in class.
 

Alice

Darts addict
Forum Staff
Moderator
28th of October? How convenient! Just after you turn in your assigment, the second GMC Jam here should start. Maybe you would like to join, too? ^^
 
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Guest User

Guest
28th of October? How convenient! Just after you turn in your assigment, the second GMC Jam here should start. Maybe you would like to join, too? ^^
I must commend you on how you always somehow manage to fit Jam advertisements in everywhere, Alice. ;3
 
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BoredMormon

Guest
You can tell there are a number of students in the course that are just there for a job, but maybe 5-6 others (including myself) had a look of desire on their faces when we finally opened up the GameMaker: Studio software for the first time in class.
Quick hint: Don't wait for stuff to come up in class before trying it yourself. Be proactive in googling and trying things out.
 

knfried7

Member
Hello all,

I am a student at Glendale Community College. I am currently taking a certificate course for Game Technology and then moving onto Game Development I & II.

So here are my questions:

1. I know many people say a degree is not needed for game development as long as you can show you know what you are doing. Should I just complete the certificate course and then go on my way or continue on with Game Development I & II? I have already paid for the certificate course and purchased the required books so I will be finishing it. (Just as a note all 3 utilize GMS)

ANSWER: In my opinion a college degree depends on your asperations. You can most likely get your foot in the door if you know what you are doing and can show it. C++, C# along with working game engine knowledge like Unit and Unreal would be extremely helpful without and without a degree. Being able to create commercial quality games with any engine is a huge plus and again, in my opinion, GMS2 is an easy entry into being able to do that.

Also, a college degree will take you further and open up other career paths for you like management in the future. Do you want to code games the rest of your life or program for years and then move up the ladder into management. In that case a college degree will help you a lot.


2. Is GameMaker: Studio worth it? Since GCC utilizes it for all of its game courses I figure it is, but would I be better off dropping the courses and focusing on Unity or C++?

ANSWER: Unity, Unreal, C++ and C# are more marketable skills to get your foot in the door at companies. However, GMS2 is a great engine with a very functional 4th gen language that you can use to prototype, design and code a game faster and you can use that to show an end-to-end game from start to finish which can get you in the door and then use it if that is what the company you are looking to join uses and then use the engine and languages the company you want to work for uses.

3. For my courses I was required to pay for GMS along with the Android export. What other exports would you suggest? I don't have a MAC or iPhone so as of now I think the iOS export is not needed, but I am leaning towards the HTML5 export.

ANSWER: Web export is good as is GXC. When I purchased GMS2 I purchased the mobile module which included IOS and Android. I'm not sure what you purchased that only provided Android. Good luck and get as much education as you can. College degrees mean a lot in the high-tech industry if you have high asperations to go beyond coding.

If you could help out with these questions I would appreciate it. Thank you in advance.
 
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