Graphics 3D N64 graphics in GM

[Gamer (ex-Cantavanda)]

Hello there. This summer vacation I will learn GML again. I got the books and all.
I will start with 2D of course, but later 3D.
And my question is, is it a good idea to start a 3D game project in GM, say an open world one, if your aim are N64 style graphics, like Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time? I know a few years ago GM wasn't a good choice to make full 3D games, but this might have changed already.

 

[renex]

 

[kamiyasi]

Hello there. This summer vacation I will learn GML again. I got the books and all.
I will start with 2D of course, but later 3D.
And my question is, is it a good idea to start a 3D game project in GM, say an open world one, if your aim are N64 style graphics, like Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time? I know a few years ago GM wasn't a good choice to make full 3D games, but this might have changed already.

There is still no native support for 3D bone, skinweight, or blendshape animations in Game Maker. This is in my opinion the biggest obstacle involving working with 3D in GMS. Fortunately with a PS1 or N64 art style, it is more manageable as many games such as Super Mario 64 worked by animating clusters of polygon groups instead of skinning bones. This is still more time consuming to implement into Game Maker's d3d functions as opposed to game engines designed for 3D, but it's not undoable.

 

[Multimagyar]

Except if you use vertex buffers, to reduce the d3d slowness, and for 3d bone, skins, and weights it is entirely possible but no a little work, I do have my own system for it for example. You easily can make source engine 2007 material easily with decent FPS. The fact that it's not native does not exclude possibilities just makes them harder to achieve as log as the right tools are there.
If you want to start a 3D project most people will say you have the wrong idea about the engine and somewhere they are right about it. But you can learn alot about resource management through it (memory, cpu, gpu, etc.) as well as you get a deeper look into how complex things are built up instead of straight up giving it to you.

 

[PhenomenalDev]

I would suggest unreal or unity as what you are suggesting is model based 3d which gamemaker struggles to manage, so yes you can do it but it's complicated and not a great idea but if you really wanna do it then knock yourself out.

 

[Niels]

N64 graphics would be the last thing I would want to emulate

 

[RangerX]

N64 graphics would be the last thing I would want to emulate

lol my thoughts exactly.
You made me laugh posting it though

 

[Misty]

Still dont know how to load a multitextured mesh in GM, other than coding my own importer.

 

[lolslayer]

I think nobody ever made a 3D open world game in game maker before, celaria with it's open gameplay areas is the closest one to be like a 3D open world game in GM I think

 

[Multimagyar]

I think nobody ever made a 3D open world game in game maker before, celaria with it's open gameplay areas is the closest one to be like a 3D open world game in GM I think

Does not say it's impossible. It's mostly the opposite. very much possible. Making something like that takes effort to fill in the whole open world with something instead of just open space. Would be an interesting task I would try but I like linear gameplay a bit more than running around mindlessly.

 

[BattleRifle BR55]

I think nobody ever made a 3D open world game in game maker before, celaria with it's open gameplay areas is the closest one to be like a 3D open world game in GM I think

Plenty have been made, with the Crimelife games arguably being the most notable.

Yes, animations are the most difficult aspect when making 3D games in GameMaker, but apart from that, N64 graphics were possible even when Game Maker 6.1 first came out. Whether one should use GameMaker for 3D games is entirely up to them; I'm super happy in doing so, and I can't wait until my FPS is released to show just how capable GameMaker can really be.

 

[lolslayer]

Plenty have been made, with the Crimelife games arguably being the most notable.

Yes, animations are the most difficult aspect when making 3D games in GameMaker, but apart from that, N64 graphics were possible even when Game Maker 6.1 first came out. Whether one should use GameMaker for 3D games is entirely up to them; I'm super happy in doing so, and I can't wait until my FPS is released to show just how capable GameMaker can really be.

I'm thinking aswell to push GM to it's limits with some game, but I don't have much time to work on it right now

(psst, I've got so far as the internet shows the only working 3D pathfinding in the whole GM community )

Does not say it's impossible. It's mostly the opposite. very much possible. Making something like that takes effort to fill in the whole open world with something instead of just open space. Would be an interesting task I would try but I like linear gameplay a bit more than running around mindlessly.

True, but you still need to know your stuff about shaders to get breathing world to life. Like making a river or waterfall flow, having a lot of grass and bushes, and so forth

 

[hippyman]

It's entirely possible. Just be prepared to read a ton and a half since there won't be any hand holding from GMS. Just from my experience trying to learn 3D, there's a lot to it.

 

[RichHopefulComposer]

N64 graphics would be the last thing I would want to emulate

N64 graphics are great. You take that back!

GM isn't the engine if you want to make a 3D game, though...

 

[lolslayer]

N64 graphics are great. You take that back!

GM isn't the engine if you want to make a 3D game, though...

N64 graphics are awful, the art style of it games might be nice but the graphics are awful

 

[Never Mind]

I think for an individual developer N64 graphics are not a bad goal to aim towards.
I don't feel like the limitations took too much away from the great games that came from that console!

(psst, I've got so far as the internet shows the only working 3D pathfinding in the whole GM community )

Hey lolslayer do you have any uploaded example / demos of your path-finding ? I'd love to hear more about it.
What you're saying is seemingly true since I was doing it "the easy way".. remember?

Spoiler: video

 

[RichHopefulComposer]

N64 graphics are awful, the art style of it games might be nice but the graphics are awful

The graphics on anything besides the newest technology are automatically awful. Making best use of the tech available to you is always what makes a game look great!
The N64 had blurry textures and stuff, sure. I still love the way first party Nintendo games look on the machine, though. Mario 64 and both Zeldas look fantastic to me, still. They did some great work there.

Yes, most games on the N64 and PS1 do look terrible nowadays though, hahah.

 

[Lewa]

An example of what i'm currently working on:

N64 styled graphics are indeed possible. And they don't need to look awful. It all depends on the artstyle (and maybe some shader trickery. Maybe bloom lighting, HDR, Depth of field, color correction, etc... to make the game look even nicer.).
Realistic artstyles age horribly compared to more abstract/cartoony ones.
Heck, it's even possible that the current AAA video games will pale in comparison to "realistic looking" games in 3-4 years.
More abstract artstyles on the other hand age much better. Wind waker is the most notable example. Just increase the resolution to a modern standard (1080p) and maybe slap a post processing filter over it. And you are done.

If you have an engine which has limitations in one way or another, then you have to try to work around them.

Can you make a 3D N64 looking game in GM? Absolutely.

But would i advise in doing so (for commercial projects)? No.
After working on my current project, i wouldn't start a new (large) 3D project in GM again.
There are a lot of reasons for that. But the most notable ones which come to my mind are:

• GML - compared to other languages (Java,C#, etc...) it's very simplistic. (absence of methods, access modifiers, constructors, etc...) It can make code maintenance on larger project tedious as it's harder to enforce software engineering practices.
• lack of multithreading - want to load and process files or game data asynchronously? can't do that. (Which is a bummer as you can't tap into the capabilities of multicore processors.)
• lack of texture filtering (Mipmaps, etc...) - you can of course activate texture filtering by using extensions (DLL on windows) but then multiplatform support goes straight out the window. (Which destroys the whole point of having an easy to use multiplatform engine.)

There are other smaller caveats like Multiple Render Targets (MRTs) which in GMS 1.4 only work by using HLSL shaders (which makes your project windows only.)

Of course, this is my personal opinion. If you still want to try things out, experiment with shaders and/or vertex buffers in a fammiliar enviroment then go for it. (That's how i learned the majority of stuff in 3D programming. Helped me to get started with OpenGL.)

 

[Misu]

Cantavanda, if you ever need any help with 3D, Im your man. GM is tricky and takes a lot of work but its possible. Would love to hear any progress.

 

[lolslayer]

I think for an individual developer N64 graphics are not a bad goal to aim towards.
I don't feel like the limitations took too much away from the great games that came from that console!


Hey lolslayer do you have any uploaded example / demos of your path-finding ? I'd love to hear more about it.
What you're saying is seemingly true since I was doing it "the easy way".. remember?

Spoiler: video

Oh yeah, I remember that, I did say it the wrong way though, I mean that I'm the only one that ever made a navmesh system in game maker

But your system is also great, just not for all situations

 

[Niels]

The graphics on anything besides the newest technology are automatically awful. Making best use of the tech available to you is always what makes a game look great!
The N64 had blurry textures and stuff, sure. I still love the way first party Nintendo games look on the machine, though. Mario 64 and both Zeldas look fantastic to me, still. They did some great work there.

Yes, most games on the N64 and PS1 do look terrible nowadays though, hahah.

The N64 and Ps1 age was when 2D looked at it's best and 3D looked at it's worst

 

[RichHopefulComposer]

The N64 and Ps1 age was when 2D looked at it's best and 3D looked at it's worst

I'd say the xbox 360/ps3 era is when 3d looked its worst, actually. So many ugly plastic-y games thanks to unreal 3/bad art direction. The era of brown and bloom. Ugh. X'D

At least ps1/n64 era was crazy and colorful and trying new things all the time! =)

And SNES still has the best looking 2D games to me. There really wasn't much going on for 2D during the n64's time. I don't think the n64 even allowed 2D games, for the most part, at least.

 

[Kyle Rider]

I think there is a certain nostalgia for the N64 graphic era and could look extremely charming. 3D wasn't at its worst, I tend to agree with Rich. Bravo for trying to tackle 3D in GMS, I predict they will catch up to unity before long.