Nintendo NX!!!!

Someone just asked Yoyo on twitter whether or not gms2 will support the Switch. Yoyo responded that they had no announcements at the time, but were always considering new partners. I really hope Nintendo support is in the works. All the new features in the world aren't going to matter to people if they can't deploy to their target platforms. ):

The new GM teases look nice, too. I'm looking forward to seeing what Yoyo's come up with!
 

Yal

🐧 *penguin noises*
GMC Elder
I'm pretty sure both Mike and Noc has pointed out in the past that they're not going to develop any Nintendo console port until Nintendo orders one (since they have the final say on what can be used to deploy to their hardware), so you should petition them instead of YYG.
 
Really? They have to wait for Nintendo to "order" one? YoYo can't approach them? Nintendo doesn't need GM on the system. They already have Unity and Unreal running on the Switch. GM, however, would benefit greatly from supporting all major platforms, like its two major competitors have been doing for a long time already. Nintendo isn't going to lose any customers because of lack of GM support. YoYo WILL lose users because of lack of Switch support.

So yeah. As a GM user, I'm petitioning YoYo, Yal! :p
 
M

Misu

Guest
Really? They have to wait for Nintendo to "order" one? YoYo can't approach them? Nintendo doesn't need GM on the system. They already have Unity and Unreal running on the Switch...
You have to be really careful of what you say there... I know what you really mean but you said it differently there. In reality, Nintendo does need third party support and outside game developers to make games for this console, no matter how many. GM is something beneficial for because of wide amount of GM users making games for the console and boost up popularity for YYG and Game Maker itself. So dont get me wrong, allowing to compile for Nintendo games will be excellent for both sides. Right now, we have so many members here who are craving to make their games for this console. YYG should give what their audience need to raise up, not only their sales, but popularity and amount of users worldwide. If YYG wont give what their people want, then this is what exactly will happen...

YoYo WILL lose users because of lack of Switch support.
We are a priority to YYG as well because we are the ones who use their program, the forums, and what makes this community large and continously growing. If we are not getting what we want, we will eventually abandon GM and the forums for another group who will give us that opportunity like Unity for example. Yoyo should not wait for Nintendo to come to them for that nintendo doesnt normally do that... its those who approach Nintendo. If YYG does not act soon, the consequences will come from us.
 

Posho

Member
YoYo WILL lose users because of lack of Switch support.
Th-this... It feels so weird to say this, but right now I'm holding a lot on my projects, waiting for a word on the new GMS2.

If it turns out that (for some reason) GMS2 won't work using the same old GML we all know and love AND/OR is a monthly-paid service thing AND STILL doesn't support the Switch (assuming that it is a hit by the time it's out) I'll have to sit down with a cup of tea to rethink my options for an engine, specially since I'm starting to do this "developer" thing each time more seriously.

Really, YoYo. Don't make me come to this. I love GameMaker unconditionally like the blind sheep I am but even sheep need to find a new field if the one they habit lacks grass.
 

Ninety

Member
I don't know why everyone is so obsessed with the Switch at the moment. The thing won't even be released for many months yet.

Plus it looks like it's gonna be pretty underpowered anyway (which follows the recent tradition of Nintendo products).
Yep. No one was threatening to abandon GM when we couldn't develop for the Wii U. What gives? It's going to be more of a niche console anyway, given its design, and given Nintendo's track record I'd have been more surprised if they had announced a partnership with YoYo. This is just a reaction to hype.

That said, the Switch is an interesting concept. It'll be cool to see what devs do with it.
 

Jabbers

Member
Can everyone keep their wig on. YoYo won't be losing customers because it probably isn't going to support a console that isn't even out yet. If you want an excuse to switch to a different engine I can think of plenty of valid reasons already, but the reason you're here is because you like what GameMaker empowers you to do and you probably aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Nintendo has had a weird relationship with indie game development. Things are better these days. From what I've been told and what I understand (from some reliable sources) the lack of public GM support for Nintendo consoles, past and future, is and will be more to do with the way Nintendo does things, and much less about big bad evil YoYo getting in the way of our fun.
 

RujiK

Member
RujiK's super accurate sales predictions:
  • The abysmal sales of the Wii U left consumers hesitant which will cause slow initial sales.
  • The portable gimmick won't work. It's too large to be truly portable, and phones/tablets negate the appeal.
  • Third party support will diminish as the sales stay low, causing continued low sales.
  • Sales will be better than the Wii U, but will remain low with about 25 million sold in 5 years.
Any predictions from anyone else? I would love an optimistic counter!
 
RujiK's super accurate sales predictions:
  • The abysmal sales of the Wii U left consumers hesitant which will cause slow initial sales.
  • The portable gimmick won't work. It's too large to be truly portable, and phones/tablets negate the appeal.
  • Third party support will diminish as the sales stay low, causing continued low sales.
  • Sales will be better than the Wii U, but will remain low with about 25 million sold in 5 years.
Any predictions from anyone else? I would love an optimistic counter!
Sure. Here's mine:
Consumers won't care about how the Wii U did. I still meet people who don't even know the Wii U exists.
The Switch, like every Nintendo portable ever, will enjoy massive third party support. Even more so than usual, since the Switch will also attract the "home" players. Nintendo will be able to concentrate all of its first party support on one system, leading to one of the best libraries for any gaming system in history. Everybody and their grandma buys one, just like the Wii. Unlike the Wii, the Switch is met with universal acclaim. Nintendo smashes it out of the park.

Everyone predicts they'll soon be out of business anyway, as has been customary for the last twenty years, even though they produce some of the best games on the planet, and constantly make money.

Nintendo accepts my dev-kit request, I make the greatest game ever made for the Switch, and Miyamoto-sempai finally notices me. Hell yeah, 2017 is going to be đŸ’©đŸ’©đŸ’©đŸ’©ing awesome.
 
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Ah, didn't see you other guys. I'll answer now:
I don't know why everyone is so obsessed with the Switch at the moment. The thing won't even be released for many months yet.

Plus it looks like it's gonna be pretty underpowered anyway (which follows the recent tradition of Nintendo products).
You're wondering why developers might be planning for something that's less than half a year out? Lmao, what? Come on, Lone! X'D
Also, a handheld that can handle Skyrim and The Witcher isn't something I'd consider "underpowered." I can't understand how any developer wouldn't be obsessing over getting ready for a new Nintendo handheld. It's a huge market. It's going to be even bigger than usual this time, with its ability to play games in the living room as well as on the go.
Yep. No one was threatening to abandon GM when we couldn't develop for the Wii U. What gives? It's going to be more of a niche console anyway, given its design, and given Nintendo's track record I'd have been more surprised if they had announced a partnership with YoYo. This is just a reaction to hype.

That said, the Switch is an interesting concept. It'll be cool to see what devs do with it.
Yeah, Nintendo handhelds are super niche. I'm sure the Switch will have an even smaller audience, since you can connect it to the TV. Hype has been very strong so far, as it should be.
Can everyone keep their wig on. YoYo won't be losing customers because it probably isn't going to support a console that isn't even out yet. If you want an excuse to switch to a different engine I can think of plenty of valid reasons already, but the reason you're here is because you like what GameMaker empowers you to do and you probably aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
They won't be losing customers like you (or Yal or Ninety, it seems) who are apparently only planning on releasing on gamejolt or maybe greenlight. They'll be losing customers like me, who actually plan on making something for consoles. Missing out on a Nintendo console (especially a handheld-home console hybrid) should be a HUGE deal to any serious developer. Of course, views are going to be very skewed around here - the GMC isn't exactly overflowing with professional developers. Which isn't a bad thing, of course. We should just remember that there's a larger potential audience for GM out there than the average GMC member.
 
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Jabbers

Member
They won't be losing customers like you (or Yal or Ninety, it seems) who are apparently only planning on releasing on gamejolt or maybe greenlight. They'll be losing customers like me, who actually plan on making something for consoles. Missing out on a Nintendo console (especially a handheld-home console hybrid) should be a HUGE deal to any serious developer. Of course, views are going to be very skewed around here - the GMC isn't exactly overflowing with professional developers. Which isn't a bad thing, of course. We should just remember that there's a larger potential audience for GM out there than the average GMC member.
Okay then, I'm going to hold you to it. When the new version of GM comes out without Nintendo console support, we'll take a look at how many of the people in this thread have been sincere and are moving away from GameMaker. I'd bet money that you'll still be here.
 
Okay then, I'm going to hold you to it. When the new version of GM comes out without Nintendo console support, we'll take a look at how many of the people in this thread have been sincere and are moving away from GameMaker. I'd bet money that you'll still be here.
You've quoted me! And I've quoted you. How much money were you thinking? I put my application in for Nintendo's developer program a few days ago. If the next GM doesn't support the Switch, I promise you I'll be porting my game over to Unity. Gamejolt isn't a fulfilling enough platform for all of us. =)
 

Ninety

Member
Yeah, Nintendo handhelds are super niche. I'm sure the Switch will have an even smaller audience, since you can connect it to the TV. Hype has been very strong so far, as it should be.
Hype was strong for the Wii U. They said all the same things about that touchscreen controller gadget. Look how it turned out.

Btw, when I said "niche" I didn't mean "no one will use it", I meant "the hardware is unusual for a handheld device and will require dedicated development, which is difficult for indies planning to release on multiple platforms".

Missing out on a Nintendo console (especially a handheld-home console hybrid) should be a HUGE deal to any serious developer. Of course, views are going to be very skewed around here - the GMC isn't exactly overflowing with professional developers. Which isn't a bad thing, of course. We should just remember that there's a larger potential audience for GM out there than the average GMC member.
I agree wholeheartedly with that last bit, but remember this is the first time (so far as I know) Nintendo has had a genuine partnership with Unreal and many of the other third parties. I'm not surprised GameMaker is a bit further down the list, considering there's only a few dozen games made with it that have reached genuine public success. It's a real shame, but I can't say I was expecting any different.

I'm not saying don't be excited, just "be realistic" :p
 
Hype was strong for the Wii U. They said all the same things about that touchscreen controller gadget. Look how it turned out.
I don't remember anyone being hyped about the Wii U. It's not something I can really prove or disprove though, so I can't really argue with you here, either. Hype around social media seems much stronger for the Switch than for the Wii U, though. Nintendo is doing a lot better at explaining what the Switch is this time around - a lot of people didn't (and still don't) know that the Wii U was a separate console from the Wii. It was a marketing disaster from start to finish.
Btw, when I said "niche" I didn't mean "no one will use it", I meant "the hardware is unusual for a handheld device and will require dedicated development, which is difficult for indies planning to release on multiple platforms".
I don't see what's niche for it development-wise, either. It's pretty much a handheld that can dock to your TV. I don't see what special work you'd have to do to port your game over to the Switch, especially if you're using middleware like Unreal 4 or Unity. (Or hopefully GM!)
I agree wholeheartedly with that last bit, but remember this is the first time (so far as I know) Nintendo has had a genuine partnership with Unreal and many of the other third parties. I'm not surprised GameMaker is a bit further down the list, considering there's only a few dozen games made with it that have reached genuine public success. It's a real shame, but I can't say I was expecting any different.
Unity (and Unreal 3, iirc) both ran on the Wii U. YoYo was the only major engine provider that missed out last gen, which was a shame, and it would be even worse if they missed out this generation. Unlike the Wii U, which nobody understood, and nobody bought, the Switch is a Nintendo handheld. These things always dominate the market, and the Switch has the added benefit of running in the living room. I think GM missing out on Switch support really will be a huge strike against GM for any serious developers, especially indies who need all the audience they can get. The Switch is almost certainly going to be a very large market.
I'm not saying don't be excited, just "be realistic" :p
I'm being realistic! I like the look of the Switch, I like money, and I like GM. I don't feel like having to switch (lel) engines because YoYo feels there isn't enough of a want or need for a Nintendo Switch export! :p
 

Jabbers

Member
I don't feel like having to switch (lel) engines because YoYo feels their isn't enough of a want or need for a Nintendo Switch export! :p
Why do you think the only reason there isn't (and probably won't be) an export is because of YoYo choosing not to? Is there evidence for this I have missed, or are people just making things up again?
 
Why do you think the only reason there isn't (and probably won't be) an export is because of YoYo choosing not to? Is there evidence for this I have missed, or are people just making things up again?
There is a bit of evidence you've missed, yeah. Last I heard, the reason GM doesn't export to Nintendo consoles is because YoYo wanted Nintendo to foot the bill for development of the export. Nintendo thought it wasn't worth it. YoYo also thought it wasn't worth it. I can see both their views if we're talking about last gen. For the Switch, I could only see Nintendo's point of view. I think YoYo will be missing the boat if they don't get Switch support up and running. Unless it's literally impossible for YoYo to build an export without another company paying for it? I admit that's not something I considered, because a game engine company not being able to build an engine without another company subsidizing it seems strange to me. I think they could raise a good deal of money on Kickstarter or the like if that was the case, though. That said, the last public line I heard from YoYo was "we want Nintendo to pay for this," not "we don't have the money to make this ourselves," so that's what I'm basing my argument on.

Also, just common sense? Can you think of any reasons Nintendo wouldn't want GameMaker running on their consoles? Does any console maker want a smaller library of potential games for their systems? I could see Nintendo being indifferent to GM support, considering the relatively small amount of quality games being made with the engine, but I couldn't see them turning YoYo down if YoYo said "we want to get our engine working on your console." There'd just be no reason for it.

You didn't answer my last question, though. How much money are you going to give me when I port my game over to Unity? I'm not one to turn down free money, hahah! X'D
 
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Jabbers

Member
There is a bit of evidence you've missed, yeah.
Also, just common sense? Can you think of any reasons Nintendo wouldn't want GameMaker running on their consoles? Does any console maker want a smaller library of potential games for their systems? :'D
Please provide this evidence, it is no good just saying "yes". I can't find it and I can't go through every post, if you know of it then help me out and share it.

You may have missed my post above, so I'll say it again; Nintendo has a very public history of resisting indie game development. I have it on pretty good authority that YoYo has been interested in the past, but the power is with Nintendo and my understanding is that Nintendo hasn't been very interested. I can't verify this any further, but it may have been mentioned on the old forum.

This idea that there aren't enough people interested and so YoYo won't bother sounds false. It is generally believed that YoYo have methods to help developers release to otherwise unsupported consoles (the devs of Hyperlight Drifter seemed to get help this way, but I can't confirm 100%) because console game development is more complicated, it isn't as open as developing for other platforms and that throws a spanner in the works for creating an open export module for people to test with. Also note that YoYo has had side projects like an export for Raspberry Pi which I understand Mike Dailly was working on and was considering releasing. Officially, we've also had modules for platforms you might describe as niche like Tizen.

Why mention all of this? Because although it is true they won't waste resources working on something that isn't worth it, it also seems true that they won't pointlessly reject popular platforms on a whim, and they are quite open to experimenting. There is no conspiracy against Nintendo, if anything you can blame Nintendo.
 
Please provide this evidence, it is no good just saying "yes".
Just edited to expand for you.
Why mention all of this? Because although it is true they won't waste resources working on something that isn't worth it, it also seems true that they won't pointlessly reject popular platforms on a whim, and they are quite open to experimenting. There is no conspiracy against Nintendo, if anything you can blame Nintendo.
You could literally just switch out every instance of "Nintendo" with "YoYo" in your quote, and have it make just as much sense. Read my expanded post above, though. I think my reason makes a lot more sense than "Nintendo just hates indie devs, duh!", hahah. Go check out Nintendo's developer page. Seems friendly enough to me. The eshop also has tons of little games, which shows Nintendo at least doesn't completely despise indie devs. =)
 
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jackhigh24

Guest
there is a service on the marketplace that will port your games to just about anything, plus yoyo in the past and its still in gms 1 already have Nintendo functions built in, but Nintendo didn't want to fund it, that was stated by yoyo on the old forum, so yoyo had put that stuff in at their own expense so it shows yoyo are willing but Nintendo are not, i see a few indie dev company's on the list, although id not count them my self as indie such as tt games, but they are listed or were last time john told me as indie.
 

Jabbers

Member
You could literally just switch out every instance of "Nintendo" with "YoYo" in your quote, and have it make just as much sense. Read my expanded post above, though. I think my reason makes a lot more sense than "Nintendo just hates indie devs, duh!", hahah.
What a nonsense thing to say, that would be lying. This is about facts. I'm explaining to you what I understand to be fact and I hope you'll give me the same respect. If not, you are making a conscious choice to disregard fact to favour Nintendo, which is an unhealthy attitude. It is only in the last few years that Nintendo started to evolve their attitude towards indie game development, and this is well documented. If you know anything about developing for Nintendo, it should be this.

Talking about the changes (2016) "Nintendo finally remembers how important indie and third-party developers are":
http://www.geek.com/games/new-nintendo-service-embraces-indie-developers-1661053/

Making progress, highlighting the complicated approach of Nintendo (2015) "It's complicated: Nintendo's relationship with indie gaming":
https://www.engadget.com/2015/03/04/nintendo-indie-gaming/

Talking about the "selectiveness" of Nintendo as they make moves to make development easier, again consistent with their attitude as mentioned above (2014) "Nintendo breaks down barriers for indie game makers":
http://www.techradar.com/news/gamin...-for-indie-developers-to-create-games-1235797
The last one notes that Nintendo was willing to cover the license fees for Unity. Interesting, hm?
 
The last one notes that Nintendo was willing to cover the license fees for Unity. Interesting, hm?
Why would that be interesting? Yeah, Unity had the clout to get Nintendo to throw some money around. GM apparently didn't, at least last gen. I knew that already. What's your point, though? That YoYo shouldn't export to Nintendo consoles because Unity is getting better treatment? I have to disagree there, if that's what you're saying.

Also, none of your links shed any light on Nintendo's "well documented" shunning of indies. Like one of them said, indie developers have been showing up on Nintendo consoles for over a decade, lol.

And you still haven't listed how much money you'd like to bet that I'll be switching engines if GM doesn't support the Switch come November. You weren't just blowing smoke at me earlier, were you?! :p
 
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Galladhan

Guest
I might be wrong, it's pure speculation, but I think that YYG proved to be a very far-sighted company in choosing not to export to Wii U, considering it sold less than 14 millions units (last time i checked, at least). And i don't think, as someone seems to suggest here, that Nintendo didn't want a partnership with YYG. If so, why Construct 2 has been exporting to Wii U since 2014?
 

Jabbers

Member
What's your point, though? That YoYo shouldn't export to Nintendo consoles because Unity is getting better treatment? I have to disagree there, if that's what you're saying.
We're talking past each other. You won't give evidence for your baseless claims, you won't acknowledge the sources I give you or the points I make, and you're now trying to put words in my mouth to fit your made up narrative.

I feel you're being emotional about this all, maybe even delusional, and you're going to regret saying that you'll leave GM because not only are you going to still be here after the new version is released, I also fully doubt you'll make any headway releasing a Nintendo game. I don't need you to respond to this point, because time is going to tell. See you in several months.
 
Sure, Jabbers. You still haven't told me how much money you're going to lose in November, though!:')

Let me know when your next gamejolt masterpiece comes out, will you? See you around.

I don't need you to respond at this point either, unless it's to finally name your bet. I have a feeling you won't, though. =)
 
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Ninety

Member
Let me know when your next gamejolt masterpiece comes out, will you? See you around.
Ad hominems are all well and good, but they don't hold much water when you've never released a game, RHC :^)

Anyway, I don't have anything more to say on the whole YoYo/Nintendo thing, because at this point it's just speculation. But I do want to address one thing:

the Switch is a Nintendo handheld. These things always dominate the market, and the Switch has the added benefit of running in the living room.
Let me break this down and explain why I think the Switch is a "niche" product. It's actually for the exact reason you described: it straddles two markets, handheld and console. This is how they describe it themselves:

The mobility of a handheld is now added to the power of a home gaming system
Now on the surface this seems like a clever idea, and while in terms of hardware that may be the case, it actually makes it much more difficult to market. You see the handheld market is focused around casual, portable gaming. Nintendo's handhelds have dominated the market so far because they're easily carried and they're standardised. But the Switch is much larger than the DS, tricker to travel with and has multiple pieces. And since Nintendo is primarily advertising the Switch as a console, albeit one which is portable, it's a tricky sell to the handheld market.

But console gamers are used to long campaigns, powerful hardware and, obviously, staying still. Many are going to be turned off by the whole "portable" angle. This leaves developers with a problem: develop games that are easily carried around in a backpack, which can be started and quit quickly like a mobile or handheld game can? Or make games which are designed for long, stationary periods of play? You couldn't have Flappy Bird on the PS4 and you couldn't have Dark Souls on a phone. It's obviously not that hard to move past this problem, but it's still a design obstacle for new development. And a design obstacle means a harder sell.

See, a market for this thing doesn't exist yet. That's the problem. Nintendo is counting on a merge of their two main existing markets - handheld and console - but 1 + 1 doesn't always equal 2 in the marketing world. The iPhone created a new market when it was released because it filled a gap people didn't know they needed - now we have smartphones. The iPad did the same because it let people do proper work in a more portable environment. But it remains to be seen whether the Switch will do the same, because right now both the portable and console gaming markets are functioning just fine, mostly independently of each other.

In a nutshell, it's gimmicky. It's the same problem the WiiU had - "the new controller is all very well and good, but what's the point?". Any innovation that challenges an existing system needs to fill that device-we-didn't-know-we-wanted criteria, like the iPhone. There were few cases where the Wii U's controller was truly used to its potential, but mostly it actually got in the way of development. The Switch is an easier pitch, because it has more standard controls, but we just don't know yet if there's an audience for this portable-console hybrid thing. Remember, most of the hype is coming from established Nintendo customers, but if they want to really muscle in on the console market (and not just in the casual gaming sense), they'll have to expand their reach.
 
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jackhigh24

Guest
@Galladhan here's a screenshot to show you its in there so it was not yoyo who didn't want to do the wiiu or 3ds and if you take the time to scan the old forums, you will see yoyo say it was because Nintendo didn't want to fund it.
os support.png
 
Ad hominems are all well and good, but they don't hold much water when you've never released a game, RHC :^)
He gave me a "you'll never release a console game," and I simply returned it. Me releasing something higher than gamejolt quality in the near future is much more likely than Jabbers or you doing it (no offense), and we both know that. Of course, you ignored his post that sparked mine, though. As always, my response to you is simply "shove off, Ninety." =)

I've been working on my game about 25 hours a week for the past few weeks, and have everything I need to finish for my KS laid out on a calendar. I'm on schedule to finish in November, so soon my response is just going to be a picture of my bank statement along with my middle finger. Can't wait - it's going to save me a lot of typing. :p

On the Switch, you're changing arguments. In your last post, you said it would be a niche console to develop for, because it'd require special work to get games running on it. You said it wouldn't be niche audience-wise, even though that's what you implied in your first post about it. Now you've done a complete 180 once again to try protecting your argument. I don't have time to debate with you if you're just going to bullđŸ’©đŸ’©đŸ’©đŸ’© me the entire time, Ninety. I will say that insinuating that adding a docking ability to a handheld will somehow lose customers or developers is a little silly to me, though. There's no extra work involved for developers, and customers can choose whether or not to dock the system, with no changes to gameplay.
 
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Galladhan

Guest
@Galladhan here's a screenshot to show you its in there so it was not yoyo who didn't want to do the wiiu or 3ds and if you take the time to scan the old forums, you will see yoyo say it was because Nintendo didn't want to fund it.
View attachment 3707
I wasn't trying to put that in doubt, @jackhigh24. The opposite, it makes perfect sense to me. But there's a big difference between saying "Nintendo didn't want to fund it" and saying "Nintendo didn't want GM on Nintendo consoles". In the first scenario, it would mean that YoYo still could have fund it with its own resources: they (wisely) decided not to (or maybe they just couldn't, but this is another thing). In the second case it would mean that, no matter what, there was no possibility to realize the module, which i highly doubt :)
 
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jackhigh24

Guest
well im just saying what yoyo staff said back on the old forums, that Nintendo would not fund them to develop a Nintendo exporter, now i don't know if they mean by way of licence or what but that's what they said a long time ago, although i expect when the world see the new gms2 then thing may very well change.
 
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Galladhan

Guest
Nintendo's handhelds have dominated the market so far because they're easily carried and they're standardised. But the Switch is much larger than the DS, tricker to travel with and has multiple pieces.
I agree with you on this, and when i saw the Switch for the first time i thought: "cool concept, but also huge for a handheld". And i'm not even sure it feels comfortable.
But i thought the same thing when i saw the Wii U controller, and then i changed my mind as soon as i tried it.

But console gamers are used to long campaigns, powerful hardware and, obviously, staying still. Many are going to be turned off by the whole "portable" angle. This leaves developers with a problem: develop games that are easily carried around in a backpack, which can be started and quit quickly like a mobile or handheld game can? Or make games which are designed for long, stationary periods of play? You couldn't have Flappy Bird on the PS4 and you couldn't have Dark Souls on a phone.
This was true until 10 years ago, for consoles, and it's true today if you consider the mobile phones market only. But it's not true anymore if you think about handheld consoles. People who bought PSP, PS Vita and 3DS didn't do that cause they wanted to play Flappy Bird.
And this is the point of the Switch: it works like a traditional "living room" console, but you can keep on playing your favorite "home games" even when you're outside home.
It's a refinement of the idea behind the Wii U.

Told this, i really don't know if the Switch will be successful or not. I hope so, but i don't know. I think it mostly depends on the price, the battery efficiency, and how Nintendo will deal with 3rd parties.
 

Ninety

Member
@RichHopelessComposer

On the "shove off", he simply said you were unlikely to release a Nintendo game. Which is statistically true because AFAIK there aren't any actual GameMaker games on any Nintendo platform. You responding with the "GameJolt masterpiece" thing was what I was calling out.

But to address the meat of your post, such as it is, my two posts aren't contradictory.

Btw, when I said "niche" I didn't mean "no one will use it", I meant "the hardware is unusual for a handheld device and will require dedicated development, which is difficult for indies planning to release on multiple platforms".
Let me break this down and explain why I think the Switch is a "niche" product. It's actually for the exact reason you described: it straddles two markets, handheld and console. <snip> Now on the surface this seems like a clever idea, and while in terms of hardware that may be the case, it actually makes it much more difficult to market.
The hardware makes it (a) harder to develop on and (b) harder to market. The hardware is what makes it niche, I have never contradicted this. My first post said that "the hardware is unusual for a handheld device" AND that it "will require dedicated development". My second said that "it straddles two markets" and that the hardware is "a design obstacle for new development" - that's just the first post rephrased. Feel free to go find those quotes. If you don't understand why a console which can be both a stationary TV experience and a portable device might pose a new challenges for serious development, you're missing the entire point of Nintendo's marketing.

Also, I find it amusing that you retreat to your dreams of wealth every time someone challenges your authority. How's this different to a standard GMC noob carrying on about how their Runescape clone is going to make millions? As always, your promises mean nothing until you actually deliver on them, and no amount of posturing will convince me otherwise. :^)
 
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On the "shove off", he simply said you were unlikely to release a Nintendo game. Which is statistically true because AFAIK there aren't any actual GameMaker games on any Nintendo platform.
Either you didn't read the whole conversation, in which case, don't reply, or your reading comprehension skills leave something to be desired...
The hardware makes it (a) harder to develop on
I can't tell if you really believe the Switch will cause any significant extra work to develop for. Your argument here sheds strong light on your skills as a developer if you're being serious...
Also, I find it amusing that you retreat to your dreams of wealth every time someone challenges your authority.
Good. Keep being amused for the next month or so. I'll be amused for as long as I know you afterward. I sincerely look forward to watching you try your best forever and ever, Ninety. :^)

With that, I'll take my leave from this thread. Take the last word here if you want it, Ninety. See you! =)
 
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Yal

🐧 *penguin noises*
GMC Elder
With that, I'll take my leave from this thread.
Or just add him to your ignore list so you won't need to get distracted from the actual discussion. :p (Removes posts completely as well as notifications and direct citations; you'll completely forget people you ignore exists).

I've seen a bunch of people make plushies based on the "NX puppy". Kinda interesting to see how people invented a mascot out of thin air just based on 3-minute trailer, and it's going to be interesting to see if Nintendo officially makes the console mascot be a dog. That would be a pretty cool "we actually listen to our fans!" moment IMO.
 
Or just add him to your ignore list so you won't need to get distracted from the actual discussion. :p (Removes posts completely as well as notifications and direct citations; you'll completely forget people you ignore exists).
That's...actually a good idea. Thanks, Yal. And no offense to @Ninety. I think we'd both benefit from the extra time saved by avoiding these pointless arguments, at least for a little while. =)

@Jabbers, you've made the list, too. Again, no offense, but I've got a game to finish, and I don't see us having any productive conversations anytime soon. I'll unblock you when I have more spare time, too.

On the topic of the Switch dog...it would be cool to see it become official, for sure. If it doesn't, Nintendo may still make a nod to it at some point somewhere. Their connects and stuff have been surprisingly self aware the last few years, haha.
 

funkygallo

Member
Back on topic, although I am very sorry, I dont' think that will see any Nintendo (wii u, 3ds, switch) exporter in the next GM version.
From Nintendo Switch images (where the N showed the parter) yoyogames was missing, and I do not see why not announce support since it would lead to new sales of GM.
I hope to be wrong, but we see in a few days
 

Jabbers

Member
I believe Mike Dailly himself commented on the 3DS issue. He and a number of other people have pointed out in the past that the 3DS is just not powerful enough for GameMaker games of any substance. Even a blank GameMaker project isn't literally blank, the engine comes with a lot of bloat as opposed to letting you select and configure exactly what it is you want to use. I believe YoYo tested a 3DS with a very basic project and the performance was woeful.

This notion is confirmed by other developers, like Alex Preston from Heart Machine who agrees the 3DS is just too under-powered for it to work (who YoYo purportedly assisted with porting their games to other consoles).

Reporter: Alright. So another thing that happened, you expanded from being on just the PC, right now you’re on Xbox One, you’re on PlayStation 4, you’re on Wii U, you’re on PlayStation Vita, you’re even on Ouya, I think! So, I wanna know, you’re covering all these platforms, so why not the 3DS? Why was the Nintendo 3DS left out of the party?

Preston: Because it’s not a very powerful system, honestly.
This is not a unique opinion and has been broadly expressed in the past. You can choose to continue believing RichHopelessComposer's conspiracy that YoYo isn't bothering or is intentionally preventing a relationship with Nintendo, but it doesn't fit with reason or with what YoYo has discussed in the past. Truly, supporting a Nintendo console isn't just about the availability of a module, and we can't be so simplistic about that.
 

funkygallo

Member
Jabbers I understand what do U mean, about power.
What I hope now is that the next GM version due is done by scratch and written in c/c++ and not in delphi, is faster than the current version.
Obviously it depends on the skill of the programmers (the developer team of GMS has expanded) be able to take advantage of hardware, so
with some optimization I think that GM2 will run on the New 3ds (NEW not the old, like Unity 3d).
 

Jabbers

Member
Jabbers I understand what do U mean, about power.
What I hope now is that the next GM version due is done by scratch and written in c/c++ and not in delphi, is faster than the current version.
Obviously it depends on the skill of the programmers (the developer team of GMS has expanded) be able to take advantage of hardware, so
with some optimization I think that GM2 will run on the New 3ds (NEW not the old, like Unity 3d).
It isn't really about efficiency of the code, it is just that GameMaker is designed to work on platforms that are far more powerful.

The 3DS at the time had 6 MB of VRAM; to put that into perspective, the the PS Vita has 128MB and a modern gaming computer uses between 1000 and 8000 MB. Remember also that the 3DS has two screens, albeit the bottom one is lower resolution, but still, you've got to make that stretch as a designer. Even with the latest model, your game also only has access to a single CPU core and 192 MB ram (if I'm not mistaken, as anything else is reserved for the OS). You have even less memory if you want to support the 2DS and the older 3DS model.

To develop for the 3DS is approximately like trying to use GameMaker to create a game for a 1990s computer I think. You'd have to strip back a lot of things for GameMaker Studio to work within those limitations.
 

funkygallo

Member
It isn't really about efficiency of the code, it is just that GameMaker is designed to work on platforms that are far more powerful.

The 3DS at the time had 6 MB of VRAM; to put that into perspective, the the PS Vita has 128MB and a modern gaming computer uses between 1000 and 8000 MB. Remember also that the 3DS has two screens, albeit the bottom one is lower resolution, but still, you've got to make that stretch as a designer. Even with the latest model, your game also only has access to a single CPU core and 192 MB ram (if I'm not mistaken, as anything else is reserved for the OS). You have even less memory if you want to support the 2DS and the older 3DS model.

To develop for the 3DS is approximately like trying to use GameMaker to create a game for a 1990s computer I think. You'd have to strip back a lot of things for GameMaker Studio to work within those limitations.
Ok you are right about the 3ds low power and also that the OLD GM runner was so heavy as we can se also into html5 generated.
But as write above, the new version is completely new, and I hope that they "scale" the output runner to the different platform. So full power with all the feature on computer, console (ps4,xbox one, wii u, switch) and ios, android and a low power version for N3ds (new 3ds, no 3ds or 2ds) and html5.
It's possible and desirable. :)

By the way whatever our discussions in a few days we will see the new GM and we will remove all doubt.
If there will be nintendo console or not.
At this time I hope they improve the html5 speed (not the WebGL) becouse on my wii u dev kit, is't very slow!
 
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