Design Are educational-based games bad? And how to make it good?

[Nexusrex]

Hey, I've got something i would like to discuss with you. (Sorry for my bad English)
I've been thinking about a math quiz game with gameplay mechanics (Dungeons and enemies..etc, not just a point and click in the answers).
But, i've been thinking. How much people may play it?
Some info about the gameplay: It's a game which randomly chooses between some rooms, each room has a question..2 answers as holes, the right one gets you to a diamond cave so the player collect money/diamond/score. And the false gets the player into a room that contains enemies.
So, how to make a game like the one i'm working on better? And are they really that bad and why?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Kazumo]

Honestly, I myself would at least give it a try. Because the main thing would be the gameplay, and if you do it the way you said, although it's not in-depth explained, it can turn out pretty good.

 

[Yal]

I think the most important parts are...

1. Make the education part of the gameplay, not something disjoint from it.
2. Make the core gameplay fun, so the players will actually want to keep playing.

You don't want players to just skip through all education just to get to the 'fun' bits, so 1 is probably more important than 2, except 2 is a necessity for the game to actually be played extensively.

I can already see an issue with your current idea in that the player gets dropped into a room with monsters if they get a question WRONG - fighting monsters seems a lot more fun than just picking up stuff. I'd probably change it to have the player drop down to the same room with a wall in the middle and different monsters on each side (so they can see one side has more monsters and that they picked the wrong answer) and then those monsters drop more diamonds when killed, so the player needs to fight monsters for loot in both cases but gets more loot if they solved the problem first.

 

[Nexusrex]

Well, can you give me a little example of number 1? (As i'm not an English talker than much)
Also, well..I didn't plan on letting the player fight the monsters, as the player is unable to fight..Just avoiding. Also, i didn't understand your idea in fixing the wrong answered room. Like, how the wall in the middle? Thanks for helping anyway.

 

[nvrogers]

Educational games can be pretty fun, but your design is making the same mistakes as all of the bad ones. The system you described is a "Skinner Box" (a system that keeps players playing because of extrinsic rewards rather than intrinsic engagement). The math should not be a way to get a reward, but a reward in itself (the math should be fun). So, for example, instead of asking a question, require the player to do harder and harder math problems in order to cast more powerful spells. Or, you could do something like SineRider, which is the gold standard of educational games in my opinion because the math is the gameplay.

 

[Ninety]

Yal makes a good point. When I was a kid I had some educational games which were simple racing games or third-person shooters with educational elements thrown in. So you'd go through a warehouse shooting poorly rendered aliens, then you'd have to abruptly stop and solve maths problems for a few minutes.

Don't do that. If you're going to make players learn, the learning should be part of the gameplay, not distinct from it.

 

[Zekka]

When I was in elementary school my favorite educational game was Roller Coaster Tycoon, which didn't explicitly test you on any math. But you couldn't play it without addition and subtraction, you needed to understand basic physics if you wanted to build good rides, and the game rewarded you for making experiments and observing after the fact.

It was effectively a giant math model where nobody told you how it worked, but by poking it and prodding it you could start to understand it. But of course, you had to learn the math, reading, geometry and physics if you even wanted to try...

What a mean trick!

EDIT: Oh yeah, not to mention that it took a lot of impulse control. If you got overzealous about a personal project and stopped playing inside the game's rules, you'd lose all your money. The easiest way to learn impulse control has always been by failing at it and then having to deal.

 

[Snail Man]

• Zekka is right; if an education game is correctly executed, the player doesn't even notice that they're learning at all

 

[RekNepZ]

I agree with the above. I've found that the most educational games for me have been ones that weren't meant to be educational (or at least, education wasn't the primary focus). I learned a lot about geography (as well as economics) from playing Railroad Tycoon, Civ has taught me about many civilizations, and Minecraft has given me an outlet to practice architecture and art.

To quote Futurama, "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."

 

[Aleksandar Gavrilovic]

it's best to pair educational material with gamification and make fun reward systems.
here's a small educational game i made in gamemaker for html and android, try it out here:
radost.hr/vulki
since you probably don't get my obscure slavic language, here's the point: click on the coconuts

 

[robbertzzz]

A good way of thinking in your design, is to let the core mechanic of your game, if possible, have something to do with the thing you're trying to teach. On the other hand, you don't want people to have the feeling that they're playing through a school book. Consider this: why would a game work better than a school book? The answer is simple: it engages you through play and a feeling of agency. These are the key parts of games: without play, we wouldn't call it a game, and without agency, it could just as well be a TV program. You should also look at the game as a motivator to learn something, not only as the medium to teach players something. If you make an educational game, and there's no fun involved at all, no one would ever play it twice. If the game is kind of fun, but the learning part is very apparent compared to the amount of fun, people won't enjoy it. The trick really is to find something that could really engage your target audience, and work from there. And this is where my first sentence comes back into view: the core mechanic should have something to do with the thing you're trying to teach. Or in other words, the thing you're teaching should be the main reason for players to find your game fun.
This is the reason why RekNepZ just said that he learned so much from Civilization and Railroad Tycoon. In Civilization, the core mechanic is to actually create and maintain a civilization. In Railroad Tycoon, the goal is to earn as much money as possible and get the biggest company possible, by using a realistic economic system. The thing players have to do is the exact same thing as what they have to learn.
Now this doesn't mean that the setting of the game has to be the thing they have to learn. There is a Dutch serious games company that made an award winning game for surgeons. It teaches them to use specific tools in a very precise manner, by actually letting them use a simulated version of the tools. They're actually using the tools as controls, and make all the movements they have to learn in the game. But the game is actually playing in a fantasy setting, inside a cave, and the goal is to solve puzzles so you can lead characters to the ground. But the core mechanic still is using the tools: the thing they need to learn.

 

[Jasnsathome]

Like everyone else has said, it's how the learning aspect is implemented with the other elements.
I know it's not math but bookworm adventures is a good example of combining educational gameplay with rpg elements and it's a fun old fun game that was very popular.

 

[Phoebe Klim]

Hmm, it's really hard to make people play any game, I bet it's even harder to make them play educational game. I wouldn't play it, for example.

Making math quiz is simply unfair. Kids spend hours at school and you want them to also do math on their free time?
You want to teach someone? Go do that to yourself.

With that being said, good way to learn math would make equip-able items like armour/weapons with various stats and player would have to use math to get understanding of which weapon is best for them.

E.g.: Burning ice sword VS ice elemental. Burning ice sword deals 5 fire damage and 2 ice damage. Ice damage on weapon reduces fire damage on same weapon by 50%, so it would actually deal 2.5 fire damage to ice elemental. Ice elemental resists 1.5 fire damage, reducing fire damage dealt to 1. Burning earth sword - 5 fire damage and 2 earth damage - is much better in this case, because earth damage does not reduce fire damage on weapon. You would tell players how stats effect each other, but they would have to do math themselves... Which inconvenient, but educational games are like that.

 

[Yal]

To be fair, I think most edutainment games (in the traditional sense, at least - I've seen a bunch of my university classmates use apps to learn japanese, but those weren't really games, more like tools) aren't picked by the people that will play them in the first place, they're bought by teachers and/or parents. There are very few edutainment games targetted for mature audience... I can only think about Typing Of The Dead.

There's a new trend about "brain training" games, though, that might qualify as edutainment games... except they teach skills - in a very loose way - and not facts. And those seem to be a lot easier to market judging by how many has appeared recently.

 

[Aura]

Making an educational game is definitely not an easy task. Making a good one is even more difficult.

First of all, when you’re designing your game, engineer it so that each player encounters a stream of challenges that are perfectly calibrated to suit his or her levels. If the game is too easy or hard, players are likely to get bored or confused and put the game down.

Encouraging interaction between players of different levels will promote a positive, inclusive sensibility. Think about how can you design your game to promote this kind of interaction. You might, for example, build in opportunities for players to be deemed “experts” and then insert opportunities for these experts to share their wisdom. This might be achieved through a “hall of fame” board or by structuring expert advice as a reward for novice players.

 

[isoya]

I think having too broad of a subject matter to teach would just make it much more complex that it should be, rather as much as possible you should try to minimize and just stick to one core idea that you really want to teach. Then make an abstract representation of that idea and try to create gameplay out of it whilst still being tied to the original core thought.

Make sure that what you want to teach is inherently part of the gameplay itself, not something players can opt out on, and again make sure it is fun as a game.

You are creating a game in the first place after all.

 

[Genetix]

Sounds like a great idea. Their are so many younger kids playing games and apps theses days that the potential target audience is huge! If you can make something like Math fun and captivating for them, that would be awesome - it is definitely worth pursuing.

 

[Detective Pixel]

I think the best and most captivating educational games are the ones with a good characters, story, and an enticing world behind them.

My favorite educational game series of all time is the Carmen Sandiego series. Throughout the games, you have to use your knowledge to succeed in capturing the slippery red hatted crook, Carmen Sandiego. Take "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego"; in this semi turn based game, you play as an ACME agent and have to chase Carmen's henchmen around the globe by talking to the locals who give you clues to whereabouts of the thieves and what they might look like. You also have a time limit to catch the thief before, so just guessing the next place can be disastrous if you are incorrect, therefore you are encouraged to learn geography. But the real reason to keep going is to catch Carmen. Carmen is the most evil woman, who steals things just to mock you with her snarky remarks and run away to do it again. She is the most hate-able yet lovable antagonist ever.

Even in the most "Educational" game, Carmen Sandiego's ThinkQuick Challenge, where you have to answer questions from these KnowBots (with unique personalities) who have stolen knowledge from around the world. Although the "Quiz Game Show." gameplay isn't very fun in itself, you know that if you get enough questions correct, you will have a chance to nab the V.I.L.E Henchmen or even Carmen herself. (In reality you can't catch Carmen in that game, but 8 year old me kept playing even after 130 rounds because I thought I could catch her.)

I highly recommend playing the Carmen Sandiego games for a brilliant take on educational games and how story and characters can help drastically.

After typing this I really want to play it again.

 

[Turgon]

Education games are hard to pull off successfully for the reasons everyone has brought up here. I think the best approach to making an educational game is to fit it in naturally like @Yal said. Find a way to incorporate real-world challenges in a fun way as the core of the game, and then the education will flow naturally like a game tutorial instead of feeling disjointed or shoehorned in.

 

[Morumotto]

Typing of the Dead. It's the perfect education game! I always like education games that were quirky and let me sort of due what I wanted without nagging me. I feel that's what an education game needs.

 

[metateen]

Education games are tricky since Education in general is a huge topic and can be easily ruined by a fragment of information missing and it's absolutely shameful to reject it. Though let's flash forward, I want to say Rent A Hero is education for the purposes of economic management. RTS' is a mixed bag since you're technically being educated on military strategics. But that just opened a hole of debate alone.

Typing of the Dead. It's the perfect education game! I always like education games that were quirky and let me sort of due what I wanted without nagging me. I feel that's what an education game needs.

While that game is recognized for it's typing skill as well as how fast you can type and matching your speed with the limited time given. The game does successfully manage to educate the player on being able to respond to quick words without looking at the keyboard.... Plot wise lol I'm 100% positive no one here wants to talk about the "original sin man is responsible for" though in terms of gameplay and control yes it's successful.

 

[TheouAegis]

Still my all-time fave edutainment

 

[metateen]

Does this count as educational?