is philosophy useful

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gibberingmouther

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this is a topic close to my heart because i majored in philosophy my first year of college (sort of - i went to a weird college) and i hated it.

i don't think philosophy is useless - for learning how to be analytical and learning some history i think it's worth taking like one or two philosophy courses. Plato's dialogues have some value and are worth studying - at least just to get exposed to how he reasons. and the ancients basically relied on philosophy for their education and their way of intellectually processing the world around them.

i hated philosophy so much for awhile (i only majored in it in the first place because of my sister, who is gifted with a high iq but is also stupid). when i discovered Richard Feinman and his opinions on philosophy i was like "finally, someone who gets me!". my iq and Feinman's are like within 1 point of each other but he was 10 times smarter than me, so i think iq and general intelligence are not the best measures. anyhoo, what do you guys think about philosophy?

edit: the title of my thread is not great. i'm not asking so much if philosophy is useful or practical as whether there is any point in studying it.
 

Nocturne

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Personally I think studying philosophy as a major diploma course is a pointless exercise unless you aspire to be a philosophy teacher. In today's society it holds little merit when it comes to getting a job outside of education I feel, and people in general frown on philosphy majors as being hippies or lazy etc... (which is a bit unfair). I also think that this is a little bit sad, and that more time should be given to philosophy in schools in general. Not as a major class like maths or science, but as one of those minor one-or-two-hour a week classes. Children benefit greatly from it as it helps them to expand their mental horizons and do what they do best - ask questions! Only it teaches them how to ask the correct questions... so, as a full time study course for University, I don't think that it is worth much as there is little value given to it by society, but as a minor course for children and high school kids I think it should be made obligatory. Sadly it's not, which is maybe why we have so many sheep in society... :(
 

Nocturne

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but kids can't really appreciate what they dont understand,
I disagree... My son went to out-of-school philosophy classes when he was about 8/9 years old for a few weeks and it really helped him learn how to formulate questions as well as create a more structured framework for thinking in general. You obviously can't throw them Kant or Nietzsche and expect them to understand it, but you can teach them the general philosophical framework and some of the classics like Plato. It was hugely beneficial to him... and I think most kids in general are already armchair philosophers as they naturally ask "why?" about everything. :)
 

Nocturne

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There isn't a real use for philosophy, it is mostly for self-evaluation.
No, philosophy is incredibly useful. Fundamentally it teaches critical thinking and how to ask questions, primarily "why?", which as we grow up we ask less and less. Navel gazing and self analysis are things that stem from philosophy but they are not necessarily an essential part of philosophy.
 

chance

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...philosophy is incredibly useful. Fundamentally it teaches critical thinking and how to ask questions....
I agree. And in addition to philosophy, I'd add geometry. Basic Euclidean plane geometry. It teaches the process of logical deduction and the elements of proof.
 

Gamer (ex-Cantavanda)

〜Flower Prince〜
Alisa, what you have said is so stupid, I wish I could give Law 100000 likes. It makes you look like a "superior little pessimist", if you know what I mean. Kids are way smarter then you think, man. A lot of kids really love learning things, being thought, learning to think, and so on. Even very poor third-world kids, or rich white kids with ADHD appreciate it. You just have to adapt to their level to teach them, communicate with them. "Uneducated uneducated" well you're the artificial plastic colouring!!!!!!!

But you're nit banned since I like cute robot girls.

About philosophy courses, it is perfect for kids, or people who want to teach it, and nothing else. If you want to learn things, so follow it, that means you won't achieve the level of philosophers. Since the ability to think for yourself, the ability to understand human psychology perfectly, or become as "enlightened" (i hate that word) as the big philosophers of history can only be obtained by yourself, your observations, your ability to learn a little wisdom from everybody around you, not from psychology/philosophy courses as an adult.
 
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GapingPixel

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I agree. And in addition to philosophy, I'd add geometry. Basic Euclidean plane geometry. It teaches the process of logical deduction and the elements of proof.
I don't know why so many people still talk about "critical thinking" while making no mention of epistemology, cognitive biases, scientific writing.... IDK, when someone says just critical thinking, odds are they're most likely referring to not so refined "wisdom".
 
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GapingPixel

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I agree. And in addition to philosophy, I'd add geometry. Basic Euclidean plane geometry. It teaches the process of logical deduction and the elements of proof.
On what you said... can you explain further?? I'm not fully getting how that knowledge can be extrapolated to typica real world situations, I only know about game theory. As a commentary: I had a genius level synesthesic bud who literally told me he was running an algorithm to determine if I were going to work with him or not. I would just had forgot about this anecdote, but thing is he was -google ready- intelligent, it really put me off a bit ...don't know if that has something to do with that you're saying
 
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chance

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I'm not fully getting how that knowledge can be extrapolated to typica real world situations..
Studying geometry provides two benefits useful in "real world situations". The first is analytical reasoning and problem solving. This applies to practically everything, from scientific research to writing detective novels.

The second benefit is spatial reasoning. Understanding measurement, symmetries, transformations, etc. This applies to every field of mathematics and science, as well as common tasks we face every day.

Of course, other fields teach these skills too. But geometry is fundamental to more complex fields. That's why it's part of the core curriculum in schools.
 

Roa

Member
Being depressed will make anyone into a philosopher. And being a philosopher usually makes me depressed. Good cycle to be in. X'D
Why did my GF cheat? Why is everyone that surrounds me an idiot? Why does my job suck? Why do I always burn the noodles Why exist? Why go on!?... said the bear


I honestly think philosophy is pretty pretensions if you get deep into it. It can go from polar absolutes to vague pseudo logic pretty quick. "How do I know I exist? I think therefor I am, but nothing in the universe is real. I'm only perceiving its real and there is proof of nothing ever except when there is for philosophy" and then it slides off in stupid 💩💩💩💩 that you would find on a neet suicide /b/ post.

I also hate how any level of deep thinking and rationality and people that are deep into philosophy will try to take responsibility or claim that space, like even thinking on anything beyond how your dinner taste is an accredit to how their study works. I say take a class in it if you want, but majoring is a waste of time.
 
"I think therefore I am" has saved me from intense existential horror/depression more than once or twice. I don't think most philosophy is pretentious or useless, actually! The people that talk about it might be a different story sometimes, but everyone is different.
 

chance

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I honestly think philosophy is pretty pretensions if you get deep into it. It can go from polar absolutes to vague pseudo logic pretty quick.
I'd say just the opposite. Philosophy is pretentious when people have a shallow understanding of it. "Vague pseudo logic" isn't characteristic of philosophy. It's characteristic of people with superficial understanding.

I'd highly recommend some philosophy courses, as part of university study. Maybe an overview course in classical western philosophy. And time permitting, some eastern philosophy as well (Chinese, Indian, Persian, etc). These courses won't make you a philosopher. But they'll improve your understanding of culture and society. And sharpen your analytical skills.

Then when pretentious jerks spout their pop-philosophical gibberish, you can shut them up with a few erudite and perceptive comments. Ladies love that. :)
 
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Zekka

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I feel bad because this is probably an easy question for some of you, but what's philosophy?
 

Surgeon_

Symbian Curator
I think Philosophy as a whole is good and useful as food for thought, and to give you (as some have mentioned already) a deeper understanding of the world around you.
But studying it as a science, or even getting a degree in it? I don't know, I myself wouldn't do it...

And of course, there are some utterly pointless and useless questions that I don't think anybody should waste time on, such as "How do I know that anything beside me exists?" or the aforementioned "How do I know that I myself exist?". Seriously?
 

chance

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..there are some utterly pointless and useless questions that I don't think anybody should waste time on, such as "How do I know that anything beside me exists?" or the aforementioned "How do I know that I myself exist?". Seriously?
It may seem silly. But you might be misunderstanding the reason those questions are important in the study of philosophy.

The reason isn't because the answer matters much. But working through the question challenges our assumptions and biases about how we perceive the world around us. The meaning and limitations of perception itself are the issues. And how (or whether) we can distinguish reality from personal perception.

That's why these particular questions are still discussed by philosophy students -- and probably always will be. (At least beginning students.)
 

Nocturne

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And of course, there are some utterly pointless and useless questions that I don't think anybody should waste time on, such as "How do I know that anything beside me exists?" or the aforementioned "How do I know that I myself exist?". Seriously?
These things are NOT pointless as long as you approach them openly and seriously... Let me tell you a little anecdote about my life to illustrate (cue wibbly-wobbly screen and harp music):

When I was younger (17 - 18) I was utterly consumed for about two years by the question "What keeps me ME?". If no single cell of my body has been around since I was born, and if I am constantly shedding them and re-growing them, then what part of my body is actually me? And what KEEPS me being me? I am NOT the same person I was when I was 15, or 6, or just born. I have grown in sooooo many ways, but I still maintain an identity and "core" personality that is "me". But what keeps me being me through all these changes?

This might seem a stupid question, but it was a bit of an existential crisis for me as I struggled to understand myself and my place in the world. I discussed this with loads of people, and those discussions delved into themes of biology, psychology, metaphysics, religion... You name it! But while those discussions were really interesting and certainly helped expand my mind, not one of them gave me a satisfactory answer to the question, yet I was sure that an answer existed.

Then, one day I realised the answer (for me - others may find their own answer somewhat different). It was a literal epiphany for me that changed my entire outlook on life...

What keeps me being me is... ME!

Stupid? Maybe, and you may think so, but the real conclusion here is that I realised I can be anybody I WANT to be. I can be anything I want to be. I can do and act and behave and change in any damned way I please. I didn't have to be defined by anything other than my own metric, and if I didn't like any part of myself then I could cast it out and change it, regardless of other people's (or society's) opinion.

So, yeah, philosophy can be very important in self growth and oftimes apparently stupid questions can be the most important ones. ;)
 

Nocturne

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[citation needed]
Ummm... I can't cite it? It's not true... I was 17-18, and had only just started down the road of my microbiological studies. In reality, a large part of your brain retains the same neurons from a very early age until you die (which is why neurodegenerative disorders are a major problem), as do heart cells and ovaries, etc... My story was not about whether my initial hypothesis was true or not, but rather it was an anecdote about how a seemingly stupid philosophical question changed my life in a very big way.
 

Jabbers

Member
I'm doing a double major of computer science and philosophy at university currently. I agree that philosophy is not something you should do if you are looking to make a lot of money, since the application of such a degree is very specific. While philosophy is useful for teaching a person how to think critically, rationally, and present a logical argument, I also want to remind people that early philosophy gave birth to modern science, and to say that it has no purpose or is somehow self-serving is to disregard thousands of years of science, culture, and history that have evolved through the filter of (or been driven by) philosophy.

Philosophy is not an empirical science and as of such it deals with ideas and questions that have little to no empirical testability, such as morality and ethics (which branches into religion, law, cultural relativity, the state of nature, to name some), perception and reality (a shallow interpretation of indirect realism vs direct realism is the stoners favourite) and modern philosophy concerning politics and sciences; I'm currently doing a course on the impact of artificial intelligence and the validity of robotic consciousness. It isn't true to imagine that somebody gets a degree in philosophy, sits in a room, and starts making things up for the sake of it. Some modern philosophy is written by scientists, professors, and doctors in fields they specialize in, including those who may have a minor, double major, or secondary degree in philosophy. It is a nice complimentary subject.

It is almost inevitable that works by Plato, Socrates, or other early philosophy figures will pop up at some point if you study philosophy. Some of their ideas remain relevant, but it is taught in a sort of historical academic context because a lot of their ideas have been superseded by new ones, as science has progressed and we've been able to understand the world and the universe better (and demonstrably unravel previously proposed arguments). I had to write an essay critically responding to Plato's theory of the forms recently and I found it a bit challenging because the material is a little boring and stodgy. If you end up starting with similar material in a philosophy course and you don't enjoy it, try not to be put off. The world of philosophy is vast, there will be topics that will bore you and others that excite.
 

Ehsan

Pirates vs Clones
More useful and fulfilling than religion.
There is more than "fullfilling" philosophy about the usefulness of a religion (be it Abrahamic, Bhuddhistic or many other religion), you just have to read. (Although, In some way I'm saying the same thing as you)

Personally I think studying philosophy as a major diploma course is a pointless exercise *unless you aspire to be a philosophy teacher*.
What a loop you have there!
 
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