Rosa's Law and the R-word

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Dog Slobber

Member
The word "retard" is a totally disgusting, obnoxious word.

I honestly don't believe how anybody with any intelligence can be ignorant of the fact that using that word is no longer excusable.

In 2010 the US passed Rosa's Law, named after Rosa Marcellino, a young woman with Down Syndrome instrumental in passing the law. In my opinion the law's role was two fold:
  1. Remove all instances of "mental retardation" with "intellectual disability" in government documentation.
  2. Ceremonial, to bring attention to the fact that the using the term retard (or a derivative) is completely inappropriate.
Sadly, the ceremonial aspect of the law has done little to reduce the use and impact of the word. When one hears the word, the only acceptable reaction should be outrage at those who choose to use it. The conversation needs to change and that person needs to be corrected. Ignoring that behaviour just further supports it use.

Upon doing a search on the GMC for "retard*" you will have over four pages of hits where people are shamelessly using it. And for the most part, it's okay with everybody around them.


I've included a link to the video describing Rosa's Law and featuring Rosa. Hopefully users who use the word, those who favour its use, those who support it through inaction and even the forum staff who turn a blind eye to its usage, will now put a face to this horrible word and become less ignorant, and actually start discouraging its use.
 

Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
Upon doing a search on the GMC for "retard*" you will have over four pages of hits where people are shamelessly using it. And for the most part, it's okay with everybody around them.
Report them then? We can't scrutinise every post and rely on the members of this fine forum to help the staff out. I agree, that using the word "retard" as an insult is not acceptable and posts using the word in that way will be removed.
 

Coded Games

Member
When one hears the word, the only acceptable reaction should be outrage at those who choose to use it. The conversation needs to change and that person needs to be corrected.
Overall, I agree with you. Retard isn’t a nice word and I personally don’t use it, but that’s about all it is for most people; a mean word.

I can not disagree with you more that we should be outraged when people use it. In the vast majority of cases I believe that anger is a useless and counterproductive emotion, especially in cases as relatively trivial as this. Nowadays people are way too easily offended.

I looked into the uses of the word here on the GMC. I don’t know where you got 4 pages of results but I got 16, which will be 17 now. Out of those 16, a couple look to be the word rotate being autocorrected, a couple of those were just people quoting other people, one was someone describing other people being toxic, and out of those I would probably guess that maybe 10 times the word was used in an offensive way toward someone else. Out of the thousands of comments here I would say that’s really, really low and not nearly as big of a problem as your making it out to be.

So ya, if you find someone being a bad person report them, it’s as simple as that. Don’t start yelling at them. I’m not really sure what sort of discussion you were hoping to get out of this topic.

Note: Sorry if any typos, typing on a touchscreen is hard.
 

Dog Slobber

Member
I looked into the uses of the word here on the GMC. I don’t know where you got 4 pages of results but I got 16, which will be 17 now. Out of those 16, a couple look to be the word rotate being autocorrected, a couple of those were just people quoting other people, one was someone describing other people being toxic, and out of those I would probably guess that maybe 10 times the word was used in an offensive way toward someone else. Out of the thousands of comments here I would say that’s really, really low and not nearly as big of a problem as your making it out to be.
You searched for "retard", you didn't wildcard it and find derivatives.
My post is accurate, put an asterisk on the end.
 

Dog Slobber

Member
Because the issue is more than just these forums.

It is a systemic one.

The forum example just reenfieces that

When people use the term as a rule it's okay by those around them. The fact that there are four pages demonstrates that people don't care

And that the moderators do in fact turn a blind eye to it

Replace Retard with other derogatory word and I guarentee there wouldn't be 4 pages .

Take a look st the user trying to bait me with his posts (before he edited the derogatory term out).

He's well aware that he can get away with it because he has gotten away with it.
 
I've seen this epidemic poisoning our beautiful forum, and I too am completely disgusted and outraged. Anyone who was brought up correctly, kept up with Rosa's Law, or has viewed The Office would know better:


Don't call people retards, guys. :p
 

Coded Games

Member
Axyl, if your trying to make dog look like an easily offended SJW or whatever I don’t think it’s best to share his responses to arguably one of the worst topics I’ve ever seen on this forum. I think his responses were fairly justified there.
 

Coded Games

Member
Because the issue is more than just these forums.


It is a systemic one.


The forum example just reenfieces that


When people use the term as a rule it's okay by those around them. The fact that there are four pages demonstrates that people don't care


And that the moderators do in fact turn a blind eye to it


Replace Retard with other derogatory word and I guarentee there wouldn't be 4 pages .


Take a look st the user trying to bait me with his posts (before he edited the derogatory term out).


He's well aware that he can get away with it because he has gotten away with it.

Well let’s compare it to the most similar word in meaning: stupid.


195 uses.


This discussion all comes down to what words people think are offensive or not. Your going to find that the answer to questions like these will always be: it depends.
 

Dog Slobber

Member
Well let’s compare it to the most similar word in meaning: stupid.


195 uses.
Stupid can not beequated to retard even though there dictionary definitions might be similar.

Retard became a derogatory word that uniquely identified mentaly handicapped individuals .

So long as you think that Stupid and Retard are equivalent then I understand why you don't understand the significance of the topic. Or why you don't think people who continue making light of the word are nasty and despicable you want to truly find an equivalent than I suggest you search for some familiar racist terms.
 

Coded Games

Member
Similar and equivalent are very different words.

Edit (better way to phrase that): Similar and equivalent are similar but not equivalent.
 

Dog Slobber

Member
Yes they are.

Maybe you could explain what your point was by searching for stupid .

Because I intetpretted it as you attempting to make a point that they are similar enough to have relevance in the context of this topic.

They don't.

Stupid just doesn't have the same hurtful history as Retard does. They are not similar in that context.
 
Stupid just doesn't have the same hurtful history as Retard does. They are not similar in that context.
How do you know that? Have you gone and polled every stupid person on the planet to ask how much the word has hurt them? "Retard" just refers to somebody who is stupid enough to fall under the arbitrary cutoff we've set for people we've decided are intellectually challenged enough to be considered to be disabled. Idiot, imbecile, and moron used to mean the same as retard, until they were used so much as insults that the original meaning of those words dropped off. The same thing is going to happen with retard in twenty years. So many people use it as a casual insult, it's going to lose its original meaning, and take a seat next to "idiot."

The word retard is different than racial slurs because the color of ones skin isn't a detriment to who they are - it doesn't make any sense to insult someone for their race. For better or worse, we're all happy enough to insult people for being stupid. "Retard" just means "extremely stupid." Calling somebody a retard is insulting them for an actual defeciency they have.

It's 💩💩💩💩ed up, but so is calling somebody a moron. They're the same insult, just on a different scale. Just best not to be an 💩💩💩💩💩💩💩 and not insult anybody for traits they can't control. If "retard" was erased from the dictionary tomorrow, plenty of people would still be made to feel like 💩💩💩💩 for being stupid with the fifty other words we have for insulting somebody's intelligence. The border between "very stupid" and "retarded" is completely arbitrary, and so is the outrage over the word.
 

Dog Slobber

Member
How do you know that? Have you gone and polled every stupid person on the planet to ask how much the word has hurt them?
No, I haven't.

But I've spent a great deal of time with my nephew, who has been called a retard, directly to his face, his whole life. I've been with him when people use the term retard, though not at him, I see him startle at the word. I've heard the snickers and comments made about him behind his back, and so has he. He very much knows what the term retard means and its history. He hasn't polled every "stupid" person on the planet either.

But no, I haven't polled every "stupid" person on the planet. I've only really met one. But I do know how much it has hurt him.

I'm blessed that I've spent the time with him that I have. I also think it's unfortunate that many here don't know him or someone like him.

The border between "very stupid" and "retarded" is completely arbitrary,
And often it's not arbitrary at all. Sometimes it's simply because of extra material when chromosome 21 splits during fetal development.
 
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Yokcos

Member
Fully disagree. Seems to me that any harm caused to people by the retard word is wholly placebo and one can be invincible against it simply by believing it to be harmless. People who have never heard the retard word, and people who don't think it's a big or small deal, are left completely unaffected while those who believe in its power fall by the thousand against this alleged verbal WMD.
Users of the retard word as an insult usually don't have any malice toward the retarded, it's often just a generic filler insult word. Nobody's seriously claiming that everybody with IQ below 70 should be treated terribly when they call their buddy Richard a retard because he dropped a bag of grapes. I don't think most people have this stereotype in their head that retarded fellows regularly drop grape bags.
So if any damage caused is there because the victim believes it is there, and no damage is intended... what's the problem? What am I missing, please do let me know.
 

Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
Yet this topic remains. o_O
Ummm... this topic remains because it is a subject that is worthy of discussion, and (other than a certain person who's posts have been removed) everyone has been participating in a respectful and intelligent manner. ;)
 

Dog Slobber

Member
So if any damage caused is there because the victim believes it is there, and no damage is intended... what's the problem? What am I missing, please do let me know.
What you are missing is perspective. You, being a reasonably intelligent, fully developed and without any mental challenges are able to look at it from a perspective that those who do have challenges are not capable of.

Trying to explain it to many who are challenged is simply not possible. Many won't or can't understand it. Trying to explain that ignoring words takes away their power isn't helpful.

What you seem to be missing is an understanding of the capabilities of the victims.
 

Nocturne

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Forum Staff
Admin
It's ****ed up, but so is calling somebody a moron. They're the same insult, just on a different scale. Just best not to be an ******* and not insult anybody for traits they can't control. If "retard" was erased from the dictionary tomorrow, plenty of people would still be made to feel like **** for being stupid with the fifty other words we have for insulting somebody's intelligence. The border between "very stupid" and "retarded" is completely arbitrary, and so is the outrage over the word.
I would have to disagree with this... "Retard" (as an insult) comes from the medical phrase "mental retardation", which refers to a physical problem relating to mental deficiencies. This is NOT something that the person can do anything about and so using it as an insult is way worse than using the word stupid (just like calling someone a "spastic" is, or using someone's skin colour is, etc...), since calling someone stupid implies that at least they can become educated and not be stupid. So, the line between the two is anything but arbitrary and (in my mind) it's very clear why stupid is acceptable and the other is not.
 
since calling someone stupid implies that at least they can become educated and not be stupid.
I.... don't think that's true. When someone calls somebody a "💩💩💩💩ing moron," a "dumbass," a "mental midget," etc, etc (stupid, too), I think the connotation is usually "you're stupid because you're stupid," not "you're stupid because you're not applying yourself!" People constantly using "retard" as a general insult/synonym for the other words I just listed shows that the intent is the same.

Nobody should be insulting anybody's intelligence or appearance, whether their iq is below the arbitrary cutoff for medical mental disability or not.

As a related fun fact, an "idiot" medically refers to someone with an iq lower than 20. It's apparently an even more vicious word than "retard."

@Dog Slobber: Anybody who makes fun of your nephew is trash. I haven't met too many disabled people, but the few I have were great. Nobody deserves to be put down for things they can't control.
 
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Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
I.... don't think that's true. When someone calls somebody a "****ing moron," a "dumbass," a "mental midget," etc, etc (stupid, too), I don't think the connotation is usually "you're stupid because you're stupid," not "you're stupid because you're not applying yourself!" People constantly using "retard" as a general insult/synonym for the other words I just listed shows that the intent is the same.
Okay, first I personally would never use some of those words to insult someone. Moron is the same as retard in my mind (check the dictionary, you'll see that it refers to mental retardation), as is "mental midget"... anything that uses a person's physical and immutable attributes as an insult is wrong. It's the same as using skin colour, hair colour, physical disabilities, etc... as general insults. The use that people put to a word doesn't detract from the etymology of that word, and in this case it's based on a medical condition that noone chooses to have, and that (in most cases) can't be "cured". I do understand where you're coming from, and I also think that over time such words may become normalised and accepted (moron for example has), but this word is a much more recent addityion to the english language (only used in the pejorative form since the 70's or so) and pretty much everyone knows that it refers to a mental disability (while those that use moron probably don't actually know where the word comes from, or think it's technically the same as retard). As this definition of the word retard is very recent in the english language, then it's still possible that it could fade into disuse and be forgotten, which is why it shouldn't be used. There are so many other wonderful words for insulting people out there in the english language anyway... (particularly if you are Scottish :p).
 
A

Axyl

Guest
I would have to disagree with this... "Retard" (as an insult) comes from the medical phrase "mental retardation", which refers to a physical problem relating to mental deficiencies. This is NOT something that the person can do anything about and so using it as an insult is way worse than using the word stupid (just like calling someone a "spastic" is, or using someone's skin colour is, etc...), since calling someone stupid implies that at least they can become educated and not be stupid. So, the line between the two is anything but arbitrary and (in my mind) it's very clear why stupid is acceptable and the other is not.
stupid
ˈstjuːpɪd/
adjective
  1. 1.
    having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense.
i.e. "Mental Retardation"


Don't confuse lack of intelligence with lack of knowledge. Knowledge doesn't define your intelligence.
 
@Nocturne: I think we're basically in agreement. Its just that the way I see it... retard became an insult *because* it refers to retarded mentally handicapped people. The problem with policing words instead of intent is that after "mentally handicapped" was used medically for awhile, people started using *that* as an insult too, because it's a way of insinuating that someone is near the bottom rung of intelligence, and that's what people want to do when they're laying into someone.

No matter what innuendos we come up with for mentally handicapped mentally....differently....abled people, they're going to enter the insult lexicon, because they all basically just boil down to "very stupid."

I dunno. I think saying "anyone who says 'retard' is vile trash'" is just kind of... trying to stop the symptom instead of the cause, I guess? I think it's better and gets more to the root of the problem to judge people on the intent of their words, and to shut down legitimate assholes for being assholes, instead of adding new words to the universal "if you say this word for any reason, you're an irredeemable piece of 💩💩💩💩 list" every few weeks. If anything, I think making "retard" a swear word is kind of terrible, in a way. It *literally medically describes a group of people.* What does it say to that group when the name of their affliction becomes so ugly and disagreeable to society that people can't even say it anymore? Instead of "don't say 'retard'", how about "don't make fun of retarded people, you worthless piece of 💩💩💩💩! There's nothing wrong with being retarded!"?

Now, keep in mind, I watch my mouth around people, and speak accordingly. There's no reason to hurt people's feelings.
 
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Roa

Member
The word "retard" is a totally disgusting, obnoxious word.
:potato:

I honestly don't believe how anybody with any intelligence can be ignorant of the fact that using that word is no longer excusable.

Upon doing a search on the GMC for "retard*" you will have over four pages of hits where people are shamelessly using it. And for the most part, it's okay with everybody around them.
you haven't exactly convinced me exactly why anyone should feel shame or find this word disgusting?


  1. Remove all instances of "mental retardation" with "intellectual disability" in government documentation.
  2. Ceremonial, to bring attention to the fact that the using the term retard (or a derivative) is completely inappropriate.
uhh... nope! That's dumb as dog 💩💩💩💩 alright.

  1. retardation is a medically correct term. On-top of that, most institutions have moved on to the term development disability. That is literally the exact same meaning used with the exact same intents and connotations, just different words. The only reason you believe "retard" is particularly offensive is because you believe people who are labeled mentally retarded have owner ship of that word as some type of people class, and it inst just a general term for anyone who is slow developing. It's an insult because calling someone mentally slow when they aren't and its in general demeaning to be put below average in something, not because people liken them to other diagnoses with mental disability or look down on mentally disabled. nobody calling their friend a retard after smacking his face into a wall while drunk is going, "ha, 💩💩💩💩ing disabled people are 💩💩💩💩"!
  2. If the term mental retardation is removed from all medical documents, then why wouldn't it be ok to call people retards then? How would it still be offensive? You are completely removing all links to those diagnosed with mental retardation conditions?? That's exactly what you want, right? To dispel this "people class" stigma YOU have? Surely you actually care about the mentally disabled as a "class" or being removed from a negative connotation class(if you actually believe that) vs just being offended on their behalf.....right?
  3. The world doesn't share your sentiment on what is and isn't appropriate.
When one hears the word, the only acceptable reaction should be outrage at those who choose to use it. The conversation needs to change and that person needs to be corrected. Ignoring that behaviour just further supports it use.
LMAO, wow, I bet you are fun at parties? "Moral" outrage is needed?? People need to be policed to your sensibilities? What a terrible way to view the world. On a term that in your own head has some negative connotation outside the fact you are already calling someone mentally slow?? if you came up to me in real life and got mad about that, I would just instigate and laugh at you before telling you to "buzz off", and you would probably end up in a cringy youtube compilation. I hate to be so brazen about it, but you installing word authority over people wont make you any less angry inside or make the world a better place. People just wont want to be around you.

forum staff who turn a blind eye to its usage, will now put a face to this horrible word and become less ignorant, and actually start discouraging its use.
wow, ignorant huh? You don't even know its a correct term or why you are mad about it? It's not that people turn a blind eye, its just that most people (Including hard social lefties like Noc) have more to do with their life than police thousands of others to your standards because your misguided understanding of culture/lexicon.

:potato::potato::potato:
 

Dog Slobber

Member
retardation is a medically correct term.
I don't know if you're deliberately removing mental infant of retardation or not, but the context of this topic is about mental abilities,

But the term Medical Retardation, is no longer a medically correct term.

It hasn't been formally removed, but hasn't been used in years. It formally became incorrect in usage in Hall v. Florida in a Supreme Court ruling in 2014.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/572/12-10882/opinion3.html

This opinion uses the term “intellectual disability” to describe the identical phenomenon. See Rosa’s Law, 124Stat. 2643 (changing entries in the U. S. Code from “mental retardation” to “intellectual disability”); Schalock et. al, The Renaming of Mental Retardation: Understanding the Change to the Term Intellectual Disability, 45 Intellectual & Developmental Disabilities 116 (2007). This change in terminology is approved and used in the latest edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, one of the basic texts used by psychiatrists and other experts; the manual is often referred to by its initials “DSM,” followed by its edition number, e.g., “DSM–5.” See American Psychiatric Association, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 33 (5th ed. 2013).
You don't even know its a correct term or why you are mad about it?
I believe my posting the precedental opinion from Hall v. Florida demonstrates quite well that it no longer is a correct term.

And the rest of your ad hominem post does a poor job of describing me, and my motivations.
 

Roa

Member
also, holy 💩💩💩💩:

No, I haven't.

But I've spent a great deal of time with my nephew, who has been called a retard, directly to his face, his whole life. I've been with him when people use the term retard, though not at him, I see him startle at the word. I've heard the snickers and comments made about him behind his back, and so has he. He very much knows what the term retard means and its history. He hasn't polled every "stupid" person on the planet either.
You know, it takes an awful lot to make me genuinely mad, I don't even know you as a member of our community, and you have already crossed a serious line with me

You have the audacity, to come here to our public forum to complain about people using words, people you don't know and cant do anything about, in conversations you aren't part of, thinking it would solve the problem or right some wrong for YOU, when you are self admitting your nephew endured years of bullying to his face, and you knew about it and did 💩💩💩💩ing nothing (or very little) to protect him, or teach him to better himself to avoid bullying, to gain some confidence so he doesn't "shutter" at vocal insults. Someone who clearly didn't get the support he needed to be brave. What are you 💩💩💩💩ing doing here?? Don't come at anyone here ever again about the moral choices of using words when you completely failed your nephew and knew his faulting confidence, someone you could have actually helped and made a difference too, someone who wasn't just your mental state, but unable to help his own.

I really really hope I'm just reading too deeply or even assuming too much, because that's frankly one of the most disgusting things I've seen on the forums in all my time here, and that's saying a lot for those of long term users.

I think Im out for the night actually, cause I don't have anything constructive to say at this point.
 

Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
You have the audacity, to come here to our public forum to complain about people using words, people you don't know and cant do anything about, in conversations you aren't part of, thinking it would solve the problem or right some wrong for YOU, when you are self admitting your nephew endured years of bullying to his face, and you knew about it and did ****ing nothing (or very little) to protect him, or teach him to better himself to avoid bullying, to gain some confidence so he doesn't "shutter" at vocal insults. Someone who clearly didn't get the support he needed to be brave. What are you ****ing doing here?? Don't come at anyone here ever again about the moral choices of using words when you completely failed your nephew and knew his faulting confidence, someone you could have actually helped and made a difference too, someone who wasn't just your mental state, but unable to help his own.
Woah there... That's reading a bit much into the comment, isn't it? YOU have no idea what the OP has or has not said to his nephew. You have no idea whether the OP has stepped in to help. Just because they make no mention of it (and why should they in the context of the topic) does NOT give you the right to rip them apart. You don't know sh*t about what they have or have not done, so get down off your high horse and don't presume to know anything about someone elses private life. You only know what they choose to tell you, and that's a miniscule part of their story.

I'm closing this topic now, as it seems that people around here are incapable of having a reasoned discussion about sensitive subjects without making it personal.
 
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