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Hey Guest! Ever feel like entering a Game Jam, but the time limit is always too much pressure? We get it... You lead a hectic life and dedicating 3 whole days to make a game just doesn't work for you! So, why not enter the GMC SLOW JAM? Take your time! Kick back and make your game over 4 months! Interested? Then just click here!
The friends of Ringo Ishikawa (closed at author's request)
- Thread starter yeo
- Start date
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FROGANUS
Guest
so cool!
its like river city ransom, grown up, lol.
fyi at a quick glance, the cigarette smoke i couldn't tell what is was- could the smoke trail come to the side rather than obscuring his face?
also is there any schedule for completion or any release?
cheers!
its like river city ransom, grown up, lol.
fyi at a quick glance, the cigarette smoke i couldn't tell what is was- could the smoke trail come to the side rather than obscuring his face?
also is there any schedule for completion or any release?
cheers!
yeo
Member
Thanks.
> its like river city ransom, grown up, lol.
Yeah, something like that but with some persona-like school-life and shenmue little touches.
> fyi at a quick glance, the cigarette smoke i couldn't tell what is was- could the smoke trail come to the side rather than obscuring his face?
I'm ok with the smoke )
> also is there any schedule for completion or any release?
I'm aiming at April-May this year. But it could be July.
> its like river city ransom, grown up, lol.
Yeah, something like that but with some persona-like school-life and shenmue little touches.
> fyi at a quick glance, the cigarette smoke i couldn't tell what is was- could the smoke trail come to the side rather than obscuring his face?
I'm ok with the smoke )
> also is there any schedule for completion or any release?
I'm aiming at April-May this year. But it could be July.
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tetherline
Guest
I really love the pixel art man. I can't wait to see how you develop the story too
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Davide Miccolis
Guest
Wow... I follow
Siolfor the Jackal
Member
This looks great, man. Can't wait to try it out.
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Red_Wing
Guest
Dig your game, man. Kinda like Double Dragon meets Yakuza. The art looks professional, too. I'd love to test it out.
yeo
Member
Field Magic
Member
Incredible work! The fight animations look really gritty, which I love (especially the right hook).
Look forward to seeing more.
Look forward to seeing more.
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drowned
Guest
You might be ok with it, but it's still the wrong design. The smoke should be blowing away from his face.
yeo
Member
lol )))
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hambo245
Guest
+1 that I'm also loving the art style here!
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DrSlouch
Guest
Good sprites and animations, and an interesting concept. I like that there are minigames to simulate other aspects of the delinquent's life. Though, as this is calls itself a beat-'em-up, I wonder: will the non-beat-'em-up parts impact the beat-'em-up parts in any way? You don't have to go into much specific detail if you don't want, because I can see that being "spoiler-y," just bringing up a concept. Akin to how in Persona games (I mention only as you list them as an inspiration) the relationships you form with other people affect your dungeon travels.
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DirectShift
Guest
Very very very interesting! Art is on point.
What about a demo?
What about a demo?
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drowned
Guest
You're wrong about that too. If a game doesn't have a demo, I watch someone else play it on youtube first to make sure I will enjoy the gameplay. "Game"play is the most important selling point of a video "game". Moreso than every other aspect combined.
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drowned
Guest
Sure, if you PM me.
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drowned
Guest
Or maybe I've been playing them for 32 years.
yeo
Member
lol )))
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drowned
Guest
That wasn't a joke, and there's nothing funny about it. You can still PM me if you want the link, or check out my collab or WIP threads
yeo
Member
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2088193727/rite-of-passage
So you got 358$ of $5,000 with your knowledge. Now I see where your attitude comes from. Keep going, man ))
To all. I think that anybody's opinion is as good as another's. But I don't see why so many nonames are so full of themselves.
I don't recall I asked any opinion at all anyway. This thread for people who might like the game, to tell them that such game exists. That's it.
So you got 358$ of $5,000 with your knowledge. Now I see where your attitude comes from. Keep going, man ))
To all. I think that anybody's opinion is as good as another's. But I don't see why so many nonames are so full of themselves.
I don't recall I asked any opinion at all anyway. This thread for people who might like the game, to tell them that such game exists. That's it.
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drowned
Guest
Actually, I didn't. Kickstarter is all-or-nothing. That's another free bit of my knowledge for you. Forums are for sharing of information; I clearly have more of it than you have.
RichHopefulComposer
Member
Are you doing a KS soon (or at all), @yeo? I'm curious about how your game would do, since we're both making retro looking games.
I agree that a game doesn't need a demo to sell. I think demos probably almost always hurt sales, actually. If a customer likes your game enough to download a demo, they probably like it enough to buy it. If you give them a demo, they may change their mind or think "maybe later," since they got their fill.
About the game itself: I like your backgrounds. Have you painted traditionally or something before? Your color choices are very nice. =)
I think the cigarette smoke is good as is, too. It would obviously be clearer if it went to the right, but not everything has to be completely clear all the time. I think it looks nicer as it is now.
I agree that a game doesn't need a demo to sell. I think demos probably almost always hurt sales, actually. If a customer likes your game enough to download a demo, they probably like it enough to buy it. If you give them a demo, they may change their mind or think "maybe later," since they got their fill.
About the game itself: I like your backgrounds. Have you painted traditionally or something before? Your color choices are very nice. =)
I think the cigarette smoke is good as is, too. It would obviously be clearer if it went to the right, but not everything has to be completely clear all the time. I think it looks nicer as it is now.
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yeo
Member
> I agree that a game doesn't need a demo to sell. I think demos probably almost always hurt sales, actually. If a customer likes your game enough to download a demo, they probably like it enough to buy it. If you give them a demo, they may change their mind or think "maybe later," since they got their fill.
That's exactlly my point.
> I think the cigarette smoke is good as is, too. It would obviously be clearer if it went to the right, but not everything has to be completely clear all the time. I think it looks nicer as it is now
Thanks on that also )
> About the game itself: I like your backgrounds. Have you painted traditionally or something before? Your color choices are very nice. =)
Kudos for the background artist ) I don't really know if he painted traditionally.
> Are you doing a KS soon (or at all)
What is "KS"?
That's exactlly my point.
> I think the cigarette smoke is good as is, too. It would obviously be clearer if it went to the right, but not everything has to be completely clear all the time. I think it looks nicer as it is now
Thanks on that also )
> About the game itself: I like your backgrounds. Have you painted traditionally or something before? Your color choices are very nice. =)
Kudos for the background artist ) I don't really know if he painted traditionally.
> Are you doing a KS soon (or at all)
What is "KS"?
Siolfor the Jackal
Member
If a customer thinks your game looks potentially good, then plays the demo and changes their mind, then the demo did it's job(And it's kind of shady to use that reasoning to not have a demo 
). A lot of the time I *won't* buy a game unless I have a chance to try it since I have been burnt too many times before by games that don't play as well as they look. Sometimes it works for the better too. You may be unsure of a game but then a demo makes you fall in love with the game and want more, I know I have had that happen many times. I sometimes wonder if there's any games I might have found amazing that I passed by purely because I was unsure of them and had no way to try them out.
For instance, I think this game looks great. But I'm not sure it looks great enough to throw money at it, I won't know that until I try it.
). A lot of the time I *won't* buy a game unless I have a chance to try it since I have been burnt too many times before by games that don't play as well as they look. Sometimes it works for the better too. You may be unsure of a game but then a demo makes you fall in love with the game and want more, I know I have had that happen many times. I sometimes wonder if there's any games I might have found amazing that I passed by purely because I was unsure of them and had no way to try them out.For instance, I think this game looks great. But I'm not sure it looks great enough to throw money at it, I won't know that until I try it.
yeo
Member
> For instance, I think this game looks great. But I'm not sure it looks great enough to throw money at it, I won't know that until I try it.
Yes. And you buy it if there's no demo. When I was a kid and played Atari, NES, Genesis, there were no demos. Sometimes everything you could see was only an art on the game cartridge. I personally didn't buy many games since I played demos of them. And I can't recall any game I wouldn't buy if there wasn't a demo.
Yes. And you buy it if there's no demo. When I was a kid and played Atari, NES, Genesis, there were no demos. Sometimes everything you could see was only an art on the game cartridge. I personally didn't buy many games since I played demos of them. And I can't recall any game I wouldn't buy if there wasn't a demo.
RichHopefulComposer
Member
In most cases, I don't think that's true at all. I think for most games that burn slowly, a trailer is actually a better representation of what the game actually is than a demo would be. Breath of the Wild is one of the best games ever made, but I think it would demo poorly, and would've lost a lot of sales if they'd given a demo. Sales from people that would've absolutely loved the game if they'd bought it. That's a real shame for the developers and the players!
The other problem with demos is that people that play them will often go "yeah, I'll get this sometime," when if you didn't have a demo, they would've just purchased. If someone is lazily shopping the eShop at night with $10 to spend, and they see your game with a demo and another game that interests them a bit less than yours with no demo, they're going to download your demo and then buy the other game so they can try that one, too. Then they're going to forget about your game after it gets buried by new releases a week later. I think demos almost always lose mountains of sales nowadays, and it's not because of the quality of the games being demoed.
It's shady not to include a demo if your only reasoning for it is "my game sucks, and nobody is going to want to buy this pile if they play it," but there are very good reasons not to include a demo, even if you're selling the best game on the planet. I think a trailer will show the essence of my thirty hour long game way better than any half hour long demo would, for example - you can't show what makes an RPG great in half an hour. As game developers, ideally we should be making amazing games, and then getting as many people to play them as possible. We'd be doing our customers a disservice if we scared them away with demos that weren't representative of our actual games!
Kickstarter, sorry.
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zendraw
Guest
a guy with an attitude, theres somthing new on this forum.
game looks ok, but not sure if id play a nakketsu lookalike.
game looks ok, but not sure if id play a nakketsu lookalike.
RichHopefulComposer
Member
yeo
Member
I don't really believe in this either. Iconclasts received 7 000 likes on release twit. And only 20K sales this far. Where're all the audience gone? Nobody really knows how it works. Game sells or don't sells.
Crossing Souls had demo and Devolver and kickstarter and everything. And they did 8K. And there're ton of examples like this.
RichHopefulComposer
Member
Yep! Those are my feelings, too. Everyone swears you need to do a ton of advertising on social media and the like to sell a game, but from what I've seen, there's not a whole lot of correlation. I've seen lots of games with a bunch of followers flop when they tried running a Kickstarter or sold their game. I'm hoping we're right, which is why I'm curious about how your game ends up selling. I'm still running a Twitter account, because it can't hurt, but I don't have a huge number of followers or anything there.
yeo
Member
It won't proof anything though )
All we can do is to do a game we are capable of right now. The best we can. The rest is in the hands of gods.
Siolfor the Jackal
Member
Yeah, I remember those days. It was really a gamble and we didn't have much money so we didn't buy games, we rented them from a video store.
I can think of several games personally. Rogue Legacy didn't sound like my type of gam at all, but I grabbed a demo and fell in love. Even bought copies for my friends. Undertale was another, long before the Kickstarter I had heard about this little game but it didn't look very good to me, but he had a small demo available and I fell in love again. As soon as that came out I bought two copies. Some more recent ones are Nine Parchments and Dragon Quest Builders on Switch, a demo for Nine Parchments came out and I played that with some friends and decided that was actually a lot of fun and bought that too. And DQ Builders, I thought it looked a bit boring and almost passed it by completely, but it had a demo release before the game came out. Ended up preordering it and spending like 200 hours on it.
I don't have a great deal of free time, and not a tonne of disposal cash so I can't afford to buy every game that "looks good".
Breath of the Wild isn't a great example, Zelda sells because it's Zelda!
I don't think that's completely accurate. I personally feel like the demo will give the person more cause to buy your game in that scenario, especially if they were already slightly more interested in it.
That's mostly true and I partly agree. In the sense that you might not be able to understand the full scope or tone or setting as well in a small demo. But, for some people(like me), getting a feel for game mechanics like the battle system is very very important.
My main point is that demos can be a useful tool, you have a wide range of potential customers and some of them would benefit from a demo.
Anyway, for something a little more on topic, I kept forgetting to ask about the ping pong gif, are there many more mini games like that? That looks like a lot of fun...
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drowned
Guest
We did, actually, have "demos" back in the 8-bit days in the form of rental stores. I rented an order of magnitude more games than I bought (or talked my parents into buying for me) and the only ones I did end up buying were either first party nintendo games (because everyone knew they were going to be amazing) or games that I enjoyed renting and wanted to play more. This does not prove your point however, as I would not have purchased the rest of the games anyway; I simply would have waited for a friend to buy them or just lived without them.
Your trailer might "look good" because it only shows 60 seconds of gameplay, but what if that 60 seconds is the entirety of the game? Your river city ransom clone might only have the three or four combo attacks, how would I know from a trailer? The ping-pong minigame might be the only one. The writing might be terrible. I wouldn't know from a trailer that YOU put together and I would not buy the game without either playing it first, or watching someone else play it for much longer.
If you're afraid to put a demo out because someone will decide that your game isn't what they expected after playing it for a few minutes, then you're being dishonest and you know you're being dishonest.
Your trailer might "look good" because it only shows 60 seconds of gameplay, but what if that 60 seconds is the entirety of the game? Your river city ransom clone might only have the three or four combo attacks, how would I know from a trailer? The ping-pong minigame might be the only one. The writing might be terrible. I wouldn't know from a trailer that YOU put together and I would not buy the game without either playing it first, or watching someone else play it for much longer.
If you're afraid to put a demo out because someone will decide that your game isn't what they expected after playing it for a few minutes, then you're being dishonest and you know you're being dishonest.
RichHopefulComposer
Member
...You could say all of that about a demo, too. Actually, I already did, and presented it as my main problem with demos: it's likely you can show a much broader picture of your game in a trailer in sixty seconds than you can in an hour long demo, depending on how long/slow burning your game is.
Did you have a demo for your KS campaign? I don't see one...
@Siolfor the Jackal: I dunno. We both have different experiences with this, I guess. I can always tell how good a game is just from gameplay videos(I knew Toby Fox was going to be rich before I was even finished watching his KS trailer, haha!), so demos never sell me - they only sate my appetite when I'm bored and lose those developers my sales. I've heard that demos lose sales overall too, though, and I'm inclined to believe it - 95% of games don't offer demos anymore.
Actually, I'd love if *every* game was forced to provide a demo on Steam and consoles. I think my game will demo very well against almost anything when it's finished. I think the way things are now though, demos are only going to lose your game sales unless your game looks really *really* bad in trailers, or if you're making a game in a new genre that people won't understand without playing or something. I'll look into it more before releasing, though. Thanks for the thoughts, Siolfor! I'll be letting you and my other gmc buddies play my game before release at the very least, haha! =D
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