OFFICIAL GameMaker Studio 2 Version 2.3.6 Release & More

rIKmAN

Member
Where is this statement done? I haven't seen that.
This was also posted on the last page from Russell on Discord stating all 2.x licence holders will get all 2.x features unlocked once we move to GMS 3.x.
 

Mehdi

Member
I feel like this is a good example of people not understanding the process,
No you are mistaken. I did know the process and didnt speak based on others comments.
the fact that I said: "I agree" is not me just getting a yet-unknown fact. But rather because I got to think there's no hope that Opera and YoYo change their plans and only two options remain: stop using Gm and switching to other engines.(which I hate) or to trust in YoYo and continue to hope for not-very-bad days.
 

gnysek

Member
So we also got confirmation, that 2.x will be sunsetted and there's 3.x coming. Looking by amount of features on roadmap and current pace (2-3 features monthly, UI/Particle editors will take little more), this could happen around Q3/Q4 of 2022. In time for cancelling first paid Indie Subscription month for those who have only 1 license now. If it will fit in those timeframes, then this also means, that 2.x perpetual users wouldn't need to ever pay to get any of new features - but those that will not claim their additional subscription bonus, may be not able two of those new features for 6-12 months from now on. Total lifetime of 2.x will be extended for around 1 year more than I initially thought.

I'm still betting that it will name GameMaker Studio GX rather than 3.x ;)
 
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Deleted User

Guest
Yoyo should make official statement to clear all this missinformation. (Please do that, enough drama) o_O:p

-if you take the free 15months of subscription and cancle the subscription you will turn your license back to permanent one. (Source: Gms faq, yoyo)

-all "subscription features" will be unlocked to all permanent license owners when gms3 is released, and gms2 permanent licenses are for life, they wont go away ever. (Source: russel on discord)

-all permanent license holders can get the new features for free if you take the 15 free subscription months, just cancle the subscription before 11/2022 and you pay $0.

-the "subscription features" are actually like DnD versions of the gml equilevants, in reality you dont need them at all.
 

rIKmAN

Member
No you are mistaken. I did know the process and didnt speak based on others comments.
the fact that I said: "I agree" is not me just getting a yet-unknown fact. But rather because I got to think there's no hope that Opera and YoYo change their plans and only two options remain: stop using Gm and switching to other engines.(which I hate) or to trust in YoYo and continue to hope for not-very-bad days.
As I said I don't want to get into arguments and back and forths, I'm just commenting on what I see.

A few post above you were asking whether your permanent licence gets cancelled after the free sub runs out which tells me you weren't sure about the process of how things are being handled. That's not a dig at you, as I've said that's on YYG for the terrible way they have gone about communicating things to users which has caused all this backlash and confusion.

Sorry but this is not very offical! Am I wrong?
It's direct from Russell, so until a large scale "official" announcement is made it's as official as it can get.
 
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Some of the comments in this thread surprise me. How are some users (apparently) confused about people being angry over being lied to? 😛
GMS2 permanent license holders were told they'd get all updates for the lifetime of the product. Now that's apparently not the case, as Russell is being (unfortunately) forced to talk out the sides of his mouth about it. ("Nothing much is changing here, you will continue to get support (for permanent users) and many of these features will make their way to free and permanent users." logically means "some features won't make their way to free and permanent users," but he won't come out and say it, hahah.) It's pretty clear there's at least a GOOD CHANCE that some features of GMS2 are going to be sub-only, and that's bull💩💩💩💩. I don't care about the price of the sub (it's cheap and fair!), and I don't care that paid users are getting free months. It's not what they were promised, so it's not what YYG/Opera should be doing, period. Honor your promises if you want to keep your reputation good and your customers happy. I've been all over Twitter and 💩💩💩💩 defending YYG by saying "well, permanent license holders are keeping their permanent license, so there's no harm no foul here," and now that's apparently not the case.

"Well, Opera/YYG could just call the program GMS3, and then you'd have no ground to stand on!!!"
Yeah, but they won't. Because they have nothing BIG enough to justify moving onto the next version, especially not with subs weighing them down. You could make this same argument a WEEK after new version number launches if you want to, which is why this argument is silly. A company could force user upgrades by changing version numbers constantly, but it'd kill their business. YYG/Opera have nothing good enough to justify a 3.0 release right now, so they should be honoring their agreements with their 2.0 customers still.

This is a really disappointing move from YYG/Opera. Sorry to the developers/forum staff who are getting the brunt of the negativity. I'm sure it's Opera making these dumb decisions. I'm not gonna stop using GM or anything, because I love the engine, but this feels lame, just because of the principle of the thing. Even if this particular situation doesn't effect me, it lowers my level of trust in the company for later on, which sucks when you're tied to an engine after starting a project.
 
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Mehdi

Member
You are right rIKmAN the communication is terrible.
However It is quite possible that some things change suddenly. For example yoyo is quite possible to say the day before: "Permanent holders will receive everything till the end of GM 2 life" and the other day say: "Some features are sub-only. " Therefor there IS some room for pessimism.
 
Can someone explain to me why people are still outraged given the information we have at this point in time?

Sure, this has been handled badly and would never have been an issue had YYG just made a permanent licence equivalent to a subcription licence on the back end to allow access to the features with nothing needing to be done by the user - this would have been the ideal route they took but for some reason known only to them they didn't do that.

Instead, to allow access to the new features they have given permanent licence holders 12mths subscriptions to Indie for free for every licence that they own, so at minimum a permanent licence owner gets 12mths and maximum 48mths subscription and this can be claimed on the YYG website in a couple of minutes.

Doing this will give all permanent licence holders access to the new features because they essentially become a subscriber paying $0.00 per month for the length of the free subscription. At the point these free months expire you fall back to the regular permanent licence(s) you own and still have full use of - you lose nothing at all.

Russell has said on Discord that all permanent licence holders will get all 2.x features fully unlocked when 2.x in sunsetted, which means your permanent licence will do exactly what it says on the tin and give you access to all updates that were made within the lifetime of 2.x once GMS moves over to 3.x.

The only difference between the 2 licences as it stands is making a few clicks on the website to claim the free subscription months, the end result is the same in that you'll get access to the new features because you are classed as a subscriber for the length of your free subscription and so get the "subscriber" benefits everyone wants so badly without having to actually pay a subscription.

Is making a few clicks on the website really that much of an issue that people would rather not do that and instead get involved in a load of drama? You can get access to what you want right now if you want to - for free and you lose literally nothing.

The only practical issue I see is that if GMS doesn't move to 3.x by January 1st 2023 then people who only own a single licence would fall back to a version of 2.x that didn't have all the features unlocked because 2.x wouldn't have been sunsetted as per what Russell stated - but this is 15mths away and there a lot of time to clarify this.

It seems like people are up in arms about the semantics of being labelled "permanent" or "subscriber" to me, rather than them giving no way for permanent licence holders to get access to new features at all. It's not like they are offering no way for permanent users to get them, it seems more like permanent users don't want to claim the free subscription and prefer to complain that they are being deprived of something when the solution is right there in front of them.

I'm not asking about why we are in this situation, what started it all or how you feel violated - YYG have handled this terribly, no doubt.

But now - given the information we have, Russell's Discord message which is the next best thing to "official" we can get and the ability to claim your free subscriptions to get access to the new features in less time that it takes to write an angry message on here...

Why are people still posting messages about how outraged they are and what are the actual remaining issues that people have?

I'm not looking for an argument or clever/sarcastic responses, I'm actually puzzled people are still so outraged when they can get exactly what they want albeit via a different method of having to claim a free sub rather than using their permanent licence credentials.

Am I missing something?
Personally, they don't warm this would happen before, especially when the subscription model was announced : Some updated features in roadmap are locked to the permanent license user for a while, my permanent license would have more limitation to this features than indie subscriber, even if i dont need it ( Filters and Effects / Triggers ).

And i want to get the answer to my question at #95, but not clearly to some question by now . They seem to be always try appeasing with words, in order to cover some information.
Besides, what they are doing makes me uneasy, i even suspect that even after becoming a subscriber, they can also announce this in someday : " Your subscriber license is the base level, you need to be the VIP subscriber for some VIP features (except the console export). Sorry, it's just not explained before."

In addition, if i want to cost my free months for the "GameMaker Studio 2 - Enterprise " , but not " GameMaker Studio 2 - Indie ", it will be different.
 

rIKmAN

Member
Some of the comments in this thread surprise me. How are some users (apparently) confused about people being angry over being lied to? 😛
At least quote me so I get a notification lol! :p
There's no "apparently" - I really am confused that people would prefer to not claim a free sub that gives them access to the exact features they are complaining about not having access to. It makes no sense to me.
GMS2 permanent license holders were told they'd get all updates for the lifetime of the product.
..and they are, but they have to claim a free subscription to slightly change their licence type in the interim until 2.x is sunsetted, at which point all 2.x features will be unlocked for permanent licence holders (as per Russell).
"Nothing much is changing here, you will continue to get support (for permanent users) and many of these features will make their way to free and permanent users." logically means "some features won't make their way to free and permanent users,"
You're quoting an older post before he spoke on Discord, which is why my post asked why people are still angry now, when we have new information from him and he said that all 2.x licences will get all features unlocked at 2.x sunset.
It's pretty clear there's at least a GOOD CHANCE that some features of GMS2 are going to be sub-only, and that's bull****. I don't care about the price of the sub (it's cheap and fair!), and I don't care that paid users are getting free months. It's not what they were promised
This is what I'm asking and what I don't understand.
You want what you were promised, there is a route to get it (via the free subs for now and your licence when 2.x sunset comes) but instead of taking that route which gives you exactly what you want you choose to be angry instead?

What's the difference between the permanent licence giving the same access as a subscription from the start, and you being asked to use a free subscription that they have offeredto give you that access until 2.x is sunsetted?

The end result is the same in that you have full access as a permanent licence holder, except on the system for a period of time you are seen as a subscriber - before going back to a fully unlocked 2.x at the end.
so they should be honoring their agreements with their 2.0 customers still.
Given the current known information, what are they not honoring?

The communication has been bad, terrible in fact - I'm with you on that - but I don't get the resistance to claim the free subscription time giving you access to the very features you are saying you are locked out of of in the interim until 2.x is sunsetted and you can fall back to your permanent 2.x licence with everything unlocked.
 
D

Deleted User

Guest
Reading all this makes it very clear that users are angry, or feel they are being lied to, or they feel they are not getting what they paid for.

Common opinion seems to be that opera is the devil and it is dragging yoyo to the underworld 😳😁

But this all is caused by bad communication; hence yoyo should really address these questions by an official statement to make all that has been discussed here clear for now. At the moment we have to gather pieces of information from discord/faq/topics... and this causes a lot missinformation.

If users are happy, or atleast not angry, it is good for both: future of gms, and the reputation of yoyo-opera.
 
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Deleted User

Guest
This post can be removed if it is somehow against rules.

But as another note to my previous post:

What if some users get really pissed off? It wont stop on crying here on forums or on discord..

Some reversers dropped cracking gms after the "free to use" was announced, that was nice move from yoyo.

If this soup just boils and boils and opera keeps testing the ice with a stick, who knows if those reversers go haywire and just release everything for free? No restrictions and all exports, that would hurt everyone.


Just another tought to think about. Better not try the ice too much. 🙂
 
At least quote me so I get a notification lol! :p
I wasn't talking about just you, hahah! There are multiple people in this thread saying "just take what you get, why are you complaining?!", some in much ruder terms than you are! 😂
I'll answer the rest of your post in a day or two when I have more energy.
 

Posh Indie

That Guy
What's the difference between the permanent licence giving the same access as a subscription from the start, and you being asked to use a free subscription that they have offeredto give you that access until 2.x is sunsetted?
Careful with this part; there is a difference, and that is that it is "soft forcing" people into the subscription when before they didn't need to have that type of tie to YoYo Games. That is, effectively, "Changing the relationship". I'm not personally upset about that, but some could be.
 
Careful with this part; there is a difference, and that is that it is "soft forcing" people into the subscription when before they didn't need to have that type of tie to YoYo Games. That is, effectively, "Changing the relationship". I'm not personally upset about that, but some could be.
Which is what this move is all about, obviously, even if people are covered until GMS3 rolls out, which isn't guaranteed.
 

rIKmAN

Member
Careful with this part; there is a difference, and that is that it is "soft forcing" people into the subscription when before they didn't need to have that type of tie to YoYo Games. That is, effectively, "Changing the relationship". I'm not personally upset about that, but some could be.
I know what you are saying, but it's a completely free subscription that can be cancelled before any payment is needed and allows you to fall back to your existing permanent licence afterwards.

It may "change the relationship" on paper as on the system you would know be a temporary sub for the duration of the free months, but there are no payments or anything changing hands other than your details on file which they already have anyway if you've bought a permanent licence, so it doesn't really seem like much of an issue to me but maybe you can elaborate as to why it would be?

@RichHopefulComposer
No worries mate, you don't even need to reply at all if you don't want to - everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I'd just like to try and understand where people are coming from given everything they are complaining about is fully accessible if they want it just via a slightly different method to get the same result.
 
it's a completely free subscription that can be cancelled before any payment is needed
This is very often a tactic used by companies in the hope that people will forget they are subscribed by the time the actual payment point comes due. If 10% of your "free" subscribers forget, that can be equal to hundreds of thousands (or millions) of dollars depending on how large your userbase is. So the incentive is definitely there for companies. It can also put people into financial stress, especially if the timeframe between signing up and payment coming due is long enough. It's very easy for these types of things to slip someone's mind. I know it's happened to me one or two times before and it's been the difference between eating for a night or not...
 

rIKmAN

Member
This is very often a tactic used by companies in the hope that people will forget they are subscribed by the time the actual payment point comes due. If 10% of your "free" subscribers forget, that can be equal to hundreds of thousands (or millions) of dollars depending on how large your userbase is. So the incentive is definitely there for companies. It can also put people into financial stress, especially if the timeframe between signing up and payment coming due is long enough. It's very easy for these types of things to slip someone's mind. I know it's happened to me one or two times before and it's been the difference between eating for a night or not...
While I agree that "forgotten subs" can earn companies money they wouldn't have gotten otherwise (I've done it myself) - I'll have to I'll respectfully disagree with the rest of it.

This will likely be unpopular (not that I've ever been popular lol!), but I don't believe for one minute that someone who can afford to purchase permanant licence(s), afford to own a computer specced well enough to run GMS2, afford to have an internet connection, electricity to run it all etc etc would be forced into poverty and unable to eat by a single month of Indie being charged because they forgot to cancel it - it's £7.

In saying that (if it's not the case already?) then maybe a suggestion for YYG would be to prevent "free" subscriptions rolling over automatically into "paid" subscriptions and instead just revert back to the permanent licence. This means the user would have to manually subscribe again if they wanted to go on the paid plan after the free months ran out and the risk of a "forgotten" payment would be removed.

It's likely why I can't understand the continued uproar given what currently know, but if there's a problem with a solution that doesn't negatively affect me then it's a simple decision for me to make to use the solution to solve the problem - rather than ignore the solution and continue to voice my complaints about the problem.

Each individual is of course entitled to feel how they want - but it's why I'm trying to understand the point of view of others who are so against it and I don't think "possible poverty" is an issue that every person that has voiced complaints (and much worse!) on here, on reddit, discord etc would likely be in danger of suffering from.

Sure, there will be minority edge cases of all kinds but much like with fixes/update priority they have gone with the option that they think will work for the majority of the userbase, which in this case is to offer free subscriptions to licence holders to effectively make them equal to subs during the transition phase towards a "subscripton only" 3.x when they can fall back to their permanent 2.x licences.

But that's exactly what people are complaining about - not being equal to subscribers.

I'm scratching my head as to why they didn't, but I honestly wish they'd just flagged "permanent licences == subscription licences" on the back end and then none of this would ever have happened. It's caused a massive backlash that could easily have been avoided and it would have been a complete non-issue, but sadly here we are.

Maybe they are going to become an evil megacorp who will own my first child and I'll look like a naive idiot at some point in the future, but for now I can only comment on the current state of things as I see them and try to understand others who have the complete opposite viewpoint - which is what I'm trying to do.

I feel like I'm clogging the thread a bit with long replies now so I'm gonna leave it for a bit, but anyone reading feel free to @ me if you feel like helping me understand/offer any insight as to the exact issues you still have (given what we now know) with the options that have been offered to give you the same equal access to features as the subs and why you are still so strongly against them, cheers!
 

Mehdi

Member
@rIKmAN
Nobody is going to get poor because of the new model. However there are high quality engines out there which are completely free and some are even open-source with plenty of features, many of which are not to be expected to be found in GM for many years to come.(sadly)

As of me, I don't think that I could easily leave GM , because I love it. But many users which have so far stick to GM, are starting to reconsider using that or possibly say a big goodbye to it and hug Unity, Godot or ....

That's why I think the new model will harm GM at first place. It would possibly cost them more than a monthly subscription fee.
 

zargy

Member
For me, the funniest thing about all of this is that to get the answer to the question "Will we eventually have access to these features when GMS2 stops receiving updates?", we had to wait for Russel to reply to a question on the Discord. They didn't bother to think that it might be important to make that clear in the official announcement.
1633932676404.png
I just find that very hilarious for some reason. I don't know why.
 

Posh Indie

That Guy
I know what you are saying, but it's a completely free subscription that can be cancelled before any payment is needed and allows you to fall back to your existing permanent licence afterwards.

It may "change the relationship" on paper as on the system you would know be a temporary sub for the duration of the free months, but there are no payments or anything changing hands other than your details on file which they already have anyway if you've bought a permanent licence, so it doesn't really seem like much of an issue to me but maybe you can elaborate as to why it would be?

@RichHopefulComposer
No worries mate, you don't even need to reply at all if you don't want to - everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I'd just like to try and understand where people are coming from given everything they are complaining about is fully accessible if they want it just via a slightly different method to get the same result.
But it doesn't matter how small of a change some users think it is (I'm on your side here, but some users liked the comfort of no chance of charge in the future), there is a change, and there is a risk of forgetting and being charged.

Now, if they let you sign up for the subscription to convert over, then remove your card while running the subscription (They may, I haven't checked)... Then yeah, it's more of a small inconvenience.
 

rIKmAN

Member
But it doesn't matter how small of a change some users think it is (I'm on your side here, but some users liked the comfort of no chance of charge in the future), there is a change, and there is a risk of forgetting and being charged.

Now, if they let you sign up for the subscription to convert over, then remove your card while running the subscription (They may, I haven't checked)... Then yeah, it's more of a small inconvenience.
Ah you just reminded me - I did find it an inconvenience that they required a card to convert to a free subscription as I had to go hunting for my wallet to do it, although I had no worries over privacy/data collection as they already have my details on file from my licence/marketplace purchases and every time we use the IDE we send them information on our details, licences, system etc.

Based on your suggestion I just checked if I could remove my card now I'm on the free subscription and it doesn't let you, it says:
"Your default payment method can't be deleted because you have an active plan" so it looks like there needs to be a card on file, although you can add other payment methods and then remove the original one so that could easily be changed to one of those free top-up cards with £0 on it to prevent any charges.

I'm not saying that should be required to prevent the risk of a charge though, it'd much better for them to either not require a card unless on a paid plan or to set the free subscription to turn off when it runs out and not auto-renew - but it's an option for those who might have that worry.
 

zargy

Member
but it's why I'm trying to understand the point of view of others who are so against it
In my case it's fairly simple: While many of the individuals working at YoYo games may be very smart and/or good at their job, the company as a whole has not yet proven to me that they are able to produce software that professionals can reliably use. They have not yet demonstrated that they have people who want to produce large, substantial games in mind when designing their software. They long ago lost my trust that they will make good design decisions that further the ability to create commercial games reasonably. GM is a genuine pain to try to do anything large in. Literally any engine is better at this point. Therefore, I do not feel like giving said company more money until they prove otherwise. If I actually considered the software to be worth subscribing to, I would potentially consider a subscription when my current license expired (assumedly when they get to GMS3).
 
S

Sam (Deleted User)

Guest
Thanks to everyone contributing to this thread. Some of you are clearly very unhappy and we take that seriously. We're reading every post.

We are not putting everything behind a subscription quite the opposite in fact - we are carrying on everyones permanent license and providing support for everything that is currently present and reserving some future (mostly unannounced features) for subscription users. Nothing much is changing here, you will continue to get support (for permanent users) and many of these features will make their way to free and permanent users. There is more to come for Filters and Effects so the feature is not complete yet but we are excited about it and wanted subscription users to be able to use it now before it has been fully finished (it is still very useful now), we will be doing more like that as we roll out new features that are useful but not complete.

Russell
I can tell you get more stressed and pissed off when people report bugs than complain about the subscription based on how well you took this thread while addressing the latter. That shows everyone might not be stressing you guys out as much as I thought and me policing a few users i admit was not my place and was a bit much. However it does sadden me because i can definitely tell you in specific are more stressed and concerned regarding fixing bugs, I hope things get better for you guys soon! I know what being stressed over maintenance feels like, especially when you get a lot of tickets about the same exact issues, so it only makes sense to prioritize those ones the most (for example i get a lot of tickets regarding people who just don't know how to use my execute shell extension, which does get old answering the same questions over and over for a concept i didn't even invent or program - shell execution i didn't invent, i only made it accessible to GM again, but they treat it like I know the answer to all their problems when they could just read up on how to do this stuff online as easily as i can).

that aside, that doesn't even scratch the surface, you guys have A TON on your plate I can't even begin to fathom. Keep up the good work and don't let anything stress you too much, take one day at a time, and hopefully things will get easier. :)
 

Posh Indie

That Guy
Based on your suggestion I just checked if I could remove my card now I'm on the free subscription and it doesn't let you, it says:
"Your default payment method can't be deleted because you have an active plan" so it looks like there needs to be a card on file, although you can add other payment methods and then remove the original one so that could easily be changed to one of those free top-up cards with £0 on it to prevent any charges.
This is going to be their point of contention and I won't take a side on that one because it doesn't bother me, but I can see why it would bother others.

Now I can go back to my regularly scheduled program: "Can we get Multi-Threading and Multi-Processing on that road map? Then after that, a proper headless build option?" (Please, nobody use this to start a fire storm. I am literally just making sure they still have visibility, haha)
 
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People are trying to find bad guy and point fingers 😅
Demonizing Opera or YYG isn't constructive criticism either you know.
Yep; This is true. Would be great if people took a bit of a pragmatic approach in their feedback.

But flipside is true also; Way too many people demonizing loyal GM users; especially those who have gone through thick and thin with GM over the years. I can't read a comment on this thread from a loyal GM user without some snide reply implying their worth is equal to the cost of the license they bought X years ago.

Remember; Tools and their users have a symbiotic relationship; it's absolutely incorrect to characterize a GM users contributions to YYG's as simply 'paying $100 a few years ago'; Everyone loyal GM users who have stuck through this tool throughout the years, and throughout multiple versions, (and throughout the pain points...!) are absolute GM Champions, and people need to recognize loyal users as such.
 
but I don't believe for one minute that someone who can afford to purchase permanant licence(s), afford to own a computer specced well enough to run GMS2, afford to have an internet connection, electricity to run it all etc etc
I wish I lived in your sheltered world. There's plenty of people who have to budget out every dollar they have for the month who *gasp* exist on the internet with a computer.
 

rIKmAN

Member
I wish I lived in your sheltered world. There's plenty of people who have to budget out every dollar they have for the month who *gasp* exist on the internet with a computer.
I don't live in a sheltered world and you don't know me or my background, so I'm going to bite my tongue and suggest that we not get personal eh?
We can agree to disagree, have different opinions and still be cordial.
 
I don't live in a sheltered world and you don't know me or my background, so I'm going to bite my tongue and suggest that we not get personal eh?
We can agree to disagree, have different opinions and still be cordial.
Well, it definitely seemed like you knew other people's circumstances in the post I quoted of yours. In any case, I'm gonna bounce from this dumb thread. Everything that could be said has been said, defenses have been mounted, attacks have been slung. It's a dumpster fire that could have been put out from the very start.
 

rIKmAN

Member
In any case, I'm gonna bounce from this dumb thread.
No point in typing out a full reply then, but I'll add "potential poverty if you forget about it" to the list of reasons of why the free sub is bad, thanks for the suggestion.
It's a dumpster fire that could have been put out from the very start.
We agree on this, all the good work done since Opera took over undone with one single badly managed decision/announcement.
 
I wish I lived in your sheltered world. There's plenty of people who have to budget out every dollar they have for the month who *gasp* exist on the internet with a computer.
Quoted for emphasis. Sorry Rikman, it's definitely nothing personal, but financial wellness is a social issue that people need to be more aware of. The 'it's just another $7' is a akin to 'its just one drink' to an alcoholic; People need to become more aware of this.
 

NeutronCat

Member
I'm just curious about what happened to similar engine Construct when they started to apply subscription model?
Were their income and user numbers boosted or decreasing in these years?
 

Elodman

Member
Tiring, exhausting, again, no.....

Seems, on some Young Titans the auto-fire mode has somehow been left ON, like on old joysticks...

Behaving and debating as if having gone through quite a few acquisitions, brand changes, or would have ever stepped through thy bedroom’s or country’s doorstep for any such scale economic act…

Well, then recommend becoming a SAP, Oracle, any ERP user, if in need of legally perfect communication attached to your favorite Engine/Tool.
Be a joyful CRUD dude and talk in 10 years about the excitement!

Think out of the PC-Box: if one cannot cover the YYG price range from revenues, possibly one would not qualify as a sustainable Indie anywhere, with any tool…

Hope even those will offer an opinion, who would have more insight (eg after having shipped some titles) than the regular “Volumen”, transforming "Release Threads" to a virtual place of Survival of the Fiercest/Loudest...

Gr8 Autumn and GameFabricating!

(Time to deploy Net-mis-masseducated reactions, in a calm, gentle, dignified manner.)
 

gnysek

Member
what happened to similar engine Construct when they started to apply subscription model?
I have no idea what happened when they started it and even when they changed that, but we can for sure say, that when GMS2 started to offer subscriptions this year, which seems to be not only 2x cheaper, but it's also not limited to non-commercial under $50,000 yearly income and have no limits like this at all, they even created page to discredit GameMaker Studio (and this nonsense benchmark), so seems that from their point of view YYG have better offer if they need so cheap tricks to attract more people :p
 

John Bailey

Member
I don't mind paying 100$ a year or whatever for future GMS releases, but at least keep the integrity intact for perpetual license holders. Things like time-exclusive features for subscribers are only going to cause the userbase to evaporate over time.
 
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Mehdi

Member
I used to think free access to GM and only paying for exports (Builds) was a very smart choice for YoYo/Opera and at the same time Users were happy too.
I don't know what led them to this controversial decision.
 
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Moth27

Member
I don't mind paying 100$ a month or whatever for future GMS releases, but at least keep the integrity intact for perpetual license holders. Things like time-exclusive features for subscribers are only going to cause the userbase to evaporate over time.
$100 each month?! yikes I can't do that. Opera is making bank!
 

Mehdi

Member
Maybe they did, but don't give Opera ideas! They know they have people that can bank roll here, but at this rate of growth they will price out the community until there's only 20 of us left! Haha
In fact Many users are saying they would leave GM. Some of my friends told me, They are out as soon as their current project is finished.
I guess this would be the future of GM. They would lose the very guys who were holding them upright. Then when the enough money is not earned any more, Opera will stop supporting Yoyo and a very old and lovely game engine with many users all over the world will see its sunset.
What a sad story. I hope never happens.
 
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Posh Indie

That Guy
In fact Many users are saying they would leave GM. Some of my friends told me, They are out as soon as their current project is finished.
I guess this would be the future of GM. They would lose the very guys who were holding them upright. Then when the enough money is not earned any more, Opera will stop supporting Yoyo and a very old and lovely game engine with many users all over the world will see its sunset.
What a sad story. I hope never happens.
I would be very careful assuming to that degree... Sure, some of your friends may leave, but I think that is way too limited and biased of a sample set to extrapolate the demise of YoYo Games with. The current price point is great, and most seem to agree there. That is not where a majority of the complaints were/are coming from. If your friends were hoping to never pay again, they also weren't going to contribute to saving YoYo Games from the demise you predict...
 

Mehdi

Member
I would be very careful assuming to that degree... Sure, some of your friends may leave, but I think that is way too limited and biased of a sample set to extrapolate the demise of YoYo Games with. The current price point is great, and most seem to agree there. That is not where a majority of the complaints were/are coming from. If your friends were hoping to never pay again, they also weren't going to contribute to saving YoYo Games from the demise you predict...
The thing that annoys them is not paying, Instead the very model of "Hey, pay the money to let that feature gets active again" is somehow not interesting to them. Guys at yoyo/Opera could quite possibly do as unity or other free engines do in terms of income. After all we cant ignore the fact that some powerful and yet completely free engines are there with many features that GM is lacking definitely.
 

Posh Indie

That Guy
The thing that annoys them is not paying, Instead the very model of "Hey, pay the money to let that feature gets active again" is somehow not interesting to them. Guys at yoyo/Opera could quite possibly do as unity or other free engines do in terms of income. After all we cant ignore the fact that some powerful and yet completely free engines are there with many features that GM is lacking definitely.
The issue there is whether or not the community as a whole hits the threshold required to make that viable. They spent way too much time catering to the hobbyist, so I really don't think that would be feasible, unfortunately. If they could have a net positive by switching to that model, they would surely do it. Unity and Unreal have the foundation in place where the hobbyists are being subsidized by the heavy hitters. I, personally, don't think Game Maker has the same situation.
 
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