I
icuurd12b42
Guest
EDIT: ^Oh Pinky Swear
Add a GPU Techniques Forum. without being that 3d specific
Add a GPU Techniques Forum. without being that 3d specific
What use is discussion of shaders and advanced rendering techniques when most of your audience doesn't even know what a cross product or a homogeneous coordinate is? You are casting pearls before swines, and these swines are the reason why the 3D forum can't reincarnate here.Common Mike
Or at least a graphics programming section, where users can post about shaders/advanced rendering related stuff.
It's the only reason I came to the previous GMC
Common Mike
Or at least a graphics programming section, where users can post about shaders/advanced rendering related stuff.
If you want a graphics programming the solution is easy. Create enough traffic by posting graphic programming content. If it is sufficiently popular there will be enough posts to justify creating a dedicated forum. If there isn't then you don't get one, nor should you.Yeah, I don't fully understand the aversion even though its been hastily kicked about before. Why exactly can't we have a 3d sub forum?
***** ****** frosty. You've become so cynical and narcissistic recently lol.What use is discussion of shaders and advanced rendering techniques when most of your audience doesn't even know what a cross product or a homogeneous coordinate is? You are casting pearls before swines, and these swines are the reason why the 3D forum can't reincarnate here.
Trust me, as a frequent Q&A responder, I've seen enough when it comes to a lack of basics --- people doing 3D without basic linear algebra and vector math, people doing physics without basic classical mechanics, people doing online stuff without basic networking theory. It's beyond dumb.
I'd love a more exclusive club where advanced people can share advanced techniques among equals, but who am I kidding?
Agreed. Implying you should know everything before you learn anything is a ridiculous idea...jesus christ frosty. You've become so cynical and narcissistic recently lol.
Because we all know the old 3d forum didn't have daily replies and content constantly stickied and uploaded to itIf you want a graphics programming the solution is easy. Create enough traffic by posting graphic programming content. If it is sufficiently popular there will be enough posts to justify creating a dedicated forum. If there isn't then you don't get one, nor should you.
The same is true fro any specialized topic group.
And what you also don't know is the history behind the creation of the 3d forums.Because we all know the old 3d forum didn't have daily replies and content constantly stickied and uploaded to it
Idk, I thought the traffic was proportionate to the number of people that used 3d. And its just grown stronger since studio.
With the release of GM6 and the introduction of 3d, Mark specifically wanted a forum where he could get direct feedback, quickly and conveniently, All in one place. Thus the creation of the 3d forum.SUGGESTIONS I WON'T FOLLOW
...
- A 3D version of Game Maker. (Never say never but stop asking me.)
...
We have more 3d support and shader support, and in general advanced graphics than ever, and there is no where to talk about these things. There used to be an advanced tab, a 3d tab, a shader tab. The audience for that has been forced into the everyday Q/A where people can't afford the time to use the search before posting a question. Do you blame them for wanting a space?Gamemaker studio has more to offer than yoyo realizes. The simplicity of the work space and native code and easy as hell multi plat setup give gamemaker it's power.
YoYo is actually being kinda irrational and stupid honestly. I don't think they have really sat back and looked at who is using their products. Obviously there are some very, very talented people putting gamemaker on life support, doing back flips to add things like this to its 3d support because yoyo simply wont. Look where gamemakers 3d is now, look how many assets and how many users are on 3d from an engine that allows base polygons and shaders, in an engine that is advertised as 2d and everyone know's its far far more work than using unity. That's clearly not the point or what people care about and why people continue to push the issue. This 3d audience is not small either. Even through the thick and thin, they are bent on spitting out stuff in GML, because GML gives them all the tools to do and handle things fast and reliability from a coding stand point.
Also kind of a double slap in the face when we can't have 3d forums or request 3d additions, yet they accept 3d assets on the market under their representation of quality getting a bit of money and with no qualms. They have the demand, they have the man power and the minds, and they are fully aware of the people pushing gamemaker ever further into 3d. And they are just choosing to sit on it based on some idea that once upon a time, gamemaker wasn't intended for 3d.
Anyone can suggest to go use unity for 3d, but at that point, why stop there? Just use it for everything if you're going to learn that environment. Its stronger than gml in 2d too, so saying that they don't or cant have overlapping markets is silly. They're in direct competition. I mean, the 3d audience for studio isn't going anywhere, no matter how much they have to add themselves and how crudely they/we can push out games and designs for it lol.
3d community is yoyo's bastard child, whether they denounce them or not.
That's just one man's opinion though.
I never implied that experts shouldn't help or share stuff with novices. What I did imply is that there is material that makes sense only to subject experts, and it needs to be in a space where only sufficiently skilled people discuss them to be effective.jesus christ frosty. You've become so cynical and narcissistic recently lol.
You know game maker is an entry tool and that simply because new people may not know what to do with it doesn't mean advanced users can't help or have space to share things? Coding is opening a door to critical problem solving and people that ask questions that seem obvious or oblivious to known things show they haven't developed the mind set, it doesn't show that they are incapable of understanding things. That's why these forums exist. That's why we don't write things for people, but ask them to present what they have done and show them what to change, and we hope that they gain the ability to solve problems on their own using skills and tools that they already have. If someone ask about maths or something, it has less to do with knowing it, and more to do with understanding why and how to apply it. Keep in mind it is highly possible some people haven't even finished their high school algebra before using gamemaker. I'm not giving them a free pass, but this is the nature of the environment here.
You're literally calling the main and majority user here "swine" because they are not familiar with how to apply things in this environment. Half of them don't even know how to word their questions for what they are looking for. Questions on things like this wont stop regardless if you have a space for advanced users.
Explain to me where I implied knowing everything before learning anything. I only implied knowing basics before learning more advanced material.Agreed. Implying you should know everything before you learn anything is a ridiculous idea...
My post was not about Mark, it was about why the original 3D was created, cripes you were one of the guys who brought the old 3D forums into this conversation. I explain to you why it was once appropriate (and no longer is) and you start strawmanning.@NPT Who cares about mark at this point? He hasn't been affiliated with gamemaker for around 12 years or so. Mike and Sandy and Russle and their crew have done more for gamemaker than mark ever had. More than he could ever dream. Don't forget that at one point gamemaker wasn't even a game maker, but animation software. Its an evolving product. I'm not looking at pointless quotes from a man since long gone and his ideas from the past. I'm looking towards the future. I'm looking at the addition of a better 3d support, and shaders and faster rendering, and multiplat that has attracted a much different audience than was previous around. I'm looking at several games using game maker's 3d on steam, and the amount of shader work and DLLs to bypass current restrictions. Without retyping what I mentioned previously.
OMG you poor things, you're being forced to post in the everyday QA forum. Here's a clue, everybody is being "forced" into the everyday programming forum, because the current traffic levels suggests only one forum is required. As the traffic increases then it can be split into catagories dictated by the traffic.We have more 3d support and shader support, and in general advanced graphics than ever, and there is no where to talk about these things. There used to be an advanced tab, a 3d tab, a shader tab. The audience for that has been forced into the everyday Q/A where people can't afford the time to use the search before posting a question. Do you blame them for wanting a space?
I mean, these topics are constantly going to dwindle back to this conversation until its recognized lol.
It's not really what you implied in your first statement. you first statement was more like people have no right to jump in with a sink or swim attitude. and a great majority (myself included) work that way.It's OK not to have basics, everyone had a time when they were without it. But it's not OK to not have basics and then press ahead with something that obviously demands a solid grasp of such basics. It's about exercising some common sense and doing stuff in order.
Sorry man, but it sounded like you are leaning in the direction of "but mark said.." and I was going to make sure that wasn't going to shift the focus. It doesn't matter why they were here or why they are gone. What matters is what is happening to the advanced community and where they can and cannot have a centralized focus on their work.My post was not about Mark, it was about why the original 3D was created, cripes you were one of the guys who brought the old 3D forums into this conversation. I explain to you why it was once appropriate (and no longer is) and you start strawmanning.
OMG you poor things, you're being forced to post in the everyday QA forum. Here's a clue, everybody is being "forced" into the everyday programming forum, because the current traffic levels suggests only one forum is required. As the traffic increases then it can be split into catagories dictated by the traffic.
Using your reasoning, then separate forums should be created for every programming type, area or discipline.
- 3D, networking, DLL, RGPs, UWP. Advertising, Steam, HTML5, AI...
There's a 3D prefix, use it.
No, there are clearly a vocal few and a quiet great majority. The quiet great majority have no interest in what the vocal few want, and would rather have a place where they can post their problem easily and get it replied to quickly. The GMC has a SINGLE programming forum and it is currently getting more traffic than ever, and I don't think there is any topic that goes unanswered (and that goes for those topics about 3D). If we split the forums again, we get split posting again and people don't know where to post and so their topics get ignored or lost etc... We have topic prefixes for a reason and that reason is that it removes the need for further sub-forums.There is a clear divide of users here
Umm, that's actually pretty damn offensive Roa... When it comes to the Forums, it was the three of us (Mike, Shaun and myself) that decided on the final look and layout through discussion and planning, not Mike (ot YYG) telling his "message boy" how to do it.I've gotten answers from Noc, but I already know he is just the messenger boy for some other voice.
ye i can confirm @Nocturne does as he pretty much wants and is not a massage boy, cant give details but i know yoyo wanted something done and its not been done yet, even though it involves life and death situation for the person affected, .Umm, that's actually pretty damn offensive Roa... When it comes to the Forums, it was the three of us (Mike, Shaun and myself) that decided on the final look and layout through discussion and planning, not Mike (ot YYG) telling his "message boy" how to do it.
Sorry man, I didn't mean to come off as an but when we had conversations about it before, it seemed really insincere and impersonal compared to other topics, so I figured you were just repeating something from a higher up that called the shots. Not every forum admin gets a say, they just do their job to oversee operation and maintenance. YoYo is more lax and tight knit of a company, but everyone answers to someone and I already knew Mikes thoughts well before you and I spoke on anything.No, there are clearly a vocal few and a quiet great majority. The quiet great majority have no interest in what the vocal few want, and would rather have a place where they can post their problem easily and get it replied to quickly. The GMC has a SINGLE programming forum and it is currently getting more traffic than ever, and I don't think there is any topic that goes unanswered (and that goes for those topics about 3D). If we split the forums again, we get split posting again and people don't know where to post and so their topics get ignored or lost etc... We have topic prefixes for a reason and that reason is that it removes the need for further sub-forums.
Umm, that's actually pretty damn offensive Roa... When it comes to the Forums, it was the three of us (Mike, Shaun and myself) that decided on the final look and layout through discussion and planning, not Mike (ot YYG) telling his "message boy" how to do it.
We do plan - one day, to add texture formats, and index buffers (which we REALLY want/need), but we've other things that are more important right now I'm afraid....one day....one day...,,,,
So this is good enough for me. I'll just wait and let YYG do their job. IMHO, they've been doing extremely well with improving GameMaker, and I'm excited to see what 2.0 is going to bring to the table. As I said, even now, there is so much that can be done with GameMaker. Sure, we might be a bit sad or frustrated about some features that could further improve GameMaker, but let's not forget about the awesome features we already have.However, I do stand by the "we really do want to add it, and will at some point". But please bear in mind, almost always more to any feature than just adding a couple of lines of code.