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Discussion thoughts on the image editor

P

Primordial Games

Guest
First off I will say there are many improvements. Good job. Congratulations. Much nicer than previous game maker studio.
That congratulatory statement however, is not one to last.

I may stand alone on this, but I find the image editor improvements entirely unnecessary. It feels a large part of the "Upgrade" to this new version of gamemaker studio is this image editor and I just dont feel it is worth it. At all.

To be blunt, the majority of people that are creating games and art for said games are using external tools. Spine, spriter, photoshop, aesprite, even things like paint.net. There are a vast amount of both paid and free options that exist and outperform the editor.

I just cant say I feel the obvious time spent and put into the image editor improvements is one worthwhile. I also cant say im entirely thrilled about the improvements because:
A) the improvements wont ever benifit myself. And
B) It feels like a large part of whats new and im having to pay extra for an image editor I still wont use.

There are still an assortment of other improvements, but I think one of the big changes and big improvements is the image editor. I just find it a little frustrating is all. Would have loved to see a higher focus on other aspects.

tldr:
I dislike the idea of image editors being a part of these game creator tools/ide's
Gamemaker, construct 2, the whole lot of these tools that include their own image editor...it feels like money and time wasted.

I just felt like saying this, its something that has always and continues to bother me.
 

breakmt

Member
I disagree. I use Image Editor in GM:S and I'm sure I will use it in GM:S2. I saw in some tutorials like this series where people use it too and happy with it :)
 

Yambam

Member
I disagree... I guess having a nice, quick, easy image editor is essential for a regular game developer. You don't wanna make a bunch of all detailed image for every time you want to want extend your game's elements, would you? That would slow down everything! Instead, you would rather choose some (consistent) shapes and colors and do some programming first.

I have to say, though; that's just my way of doing stuff. And if you're not on your own (and you have an artist by your side), then it's a different story.

Either way, your game is nothing without either visuals or audibles... just think about that one. :)

TL;DR: GameMaker is an environment in which all tools are provided for your average game developer. One thing, I feel, is missing in these tools... which is a word processor with simple formatting for taking notes, checking off stuff, etc.
 

rwkay

GameMaker Staff
GameMaker Dev.
We were very surprised to discover that the image editor in gm IS THE most used feature, initially when we first came to join YoYo we saw it as kinda lame and not worth the effort.

Over the years we have learnt how important and integral it is to the workflow and structure of gm. So we put the appropriate level of effort into it, along with the room editor

Russell
 
P

Primordial Games

Guest
I disagree. I use Image Editor in GM:S and I'm sure I will use it in GM:S2. I saw in some tutorials like this series where people use it too and happy with it :)
Certainly and of course. A basic editor can be nice to have on hand. For pixel art you dont need much and it saves you and others from spending money. It can also potentially save time depending on how you work.
However, if you and others had programs such as pro motion, aesprite, graphics gale, spine, photoshop or the countless others...I would imagine you would use those over the editor provided.

The moment you want anything other than pixel art...you are at a huge disadvantage.

I disagree... I guess having a nice, quick, easy image editor is essential for a regular game developer. You don't wanna make a bunch of all detailed image for every time you want to want extend your game's elements, would you? That would slow down everything! Instead, you would rather choose some (consistent) shapes and colors and do some programming first.

I have to say, though; that's just my way of doing stuff. And if you're not on your own (and you have an artist by your side), then it's a different story.

Either way, your game is nothing without either visuals or audibles... just think about that one. :)

TL;DR: GameMaker is an environment in which all tools are provided for your average game developer. One thing, I feel, is missing in these tools... which is a word processor with simple formatting for taking notes, checking off stuff, etc.
As a side note, I highly highly recommend you check out a program called Scrivener. Best word editor out there in my opinion. I use it for writing novels. Drafting/storyboarding games. Just about everything.
VERY useful tool for keeping a game and all your lore, characters, art, to do list...everything very organized.

I 100% agree a simple editor is great to have on hand. But I dont think anything fancy needs in place.
The new editor is a great improvement, but still cant replace other tools. If it isnt a replacement...I find it unnecessary. Its a personal thing. I have better tools available because I spent that money. I would rather see my money go into the things I spend it on and use.

As for shapes and colors...you dont need anything they added to do that.
Most of my early prototypes are simple green rectangles and circles!

Personally, I prototype my games and then hire out my final art. Ill draw and do things myself to some extent. But more as a hobby. When I want $$$ I spend it. But when I create my art, I know the idea of my game. I take a day or week or however long I need and create a bunch of folders of my temporary assets. This becomes difficult in GM. Its slower and not nearly as quick to work in than something like photoshop. And when I animate my work, I usually make rough mockups in spine or other editors.

It is only after have a good chunk of assets to work with that I actually start my project. It also helps because I re-use a ton of my placeholder assets. I need a car? find that old cars folder and throw something in.

We were very surprised to discover that the image editor in gm IS THE most used feature, initially when we first came to join YoYo we saw it as kinda lame and not worth the effort.

Over the years we have learnt how important and integral it is to the workflow and structure of gm. So we put the appropriate level of effort into it, along with the room editor

Russell
Yeah, i know many use it and like it. It is what it is. My personal only interest in GM is the code editor and room editor. I love the improvements in those areas...cant help but wish even more time was focused there though.
I also dont typically do pixel art. GM editors seem heavily pixel art focused if not limited.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qcf61wzly24qb2p/run.JPG?dl=0
This type of style...cant say I would want to color it in and work on it in GM.
I also use wacom devices and...GM isnt the best environment for that either.

Im all about constructive criticism, so might as well add a few things that could be useful in an image editor.

Currently the pen can have 2 colors, left and right click. It would be nice if you could use 2 tools in that fashion. so left click to draw, right click to erase...or fill...or draw primitive etc.
 

Mike

nobody important
GMC Elder
A) the improvements wont ever benifit myself. And
B) It feels like a large part of whats new and im having to pay extra for an image editor I still wont use.

tldr:
I dislike the idea of image editors being a part of these game creator tools/ide's
Gamemaker, construct 2, the whole lot of these tools that include their own image editor...it feels like money and time wasted.
This might shock you, but we're not making this product for just you. GameMaker has a massively wide and varying audience, from absolute beginners to professionals who happily churn out games on desktop, mobile and console.
For beginners the image editor gives them a place to get started and build some basic sprites - for them, having an editor is a must, no matter how good or bad it is.
For hobbyists, we've found a wide range of users who use it for actual creation of final images and sprites, to moving things around or just creating test assets.
For professionals it's much the same. The number creating final assets in it is right down, but they use it for test assets, and more importantly moving things around - adjusting them, adding small detail to them.

I did and still do, rate the image editor as on of t THE most important things in the tool, which is why we've put so much effort into it. I "hope" that we can overtake some of the other tools like graphics gale, Aseprite, Pro Motion, Pyxel Edit and so on. The image editor is "plug-in-able", and we hope to open this up in the future to allow other people to add to it. Even in its current form, I prefer it to many other tools - and this is just the start.

We never planned on "stealing" users from Photoshop - we're not making a photoshop. Our goal has always been to make a great "pixel animation" tool, and I believe we're well on track to do this. We will expand beyond that, but a good pixel animation tool is where we start. If someone can buy GameMaker and not need another tool to make the game of their dreams, I'll be happy.

Currently the pen can have 2 colours, left and right click. It would be nice if you could use 2 tools in that fashion. so left click to draw, right click to erase...or fill...or draw primitive etc
This is certainly possible in the future.
 
I

izark

Guest
I dont think the addition of an image editor is time wasted. I use photoshop constantly but I also use the image editor from GM 1.4 just for final touches, make new sprites from previous ones...

I dont really like the new editor because of the lack of features that previously existed and I use a lot like glow, sharpen, colorize or gradient. It would be amazing to have them again, and I would love the new editor then.

I can save a lot of time with those tools, and it would be great to have some effects, filters, and other options to modify sprites.

You don´t have to create a photoshop like editor, but the new one has very little options In my opinion, I don´t know if you think this too.
 
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Mike

nobody important
GMC Elder
We will be adding back in the tools we're sure users actually us. Many of the old ones would just be a waste of time re-adding.
 

Aviox

Member
@Mike Is there a reason the next and previous frame hotkeys (in the image editor) are 1 and 2? It seems pretty confusing (non-intuitive) to me. I know the arrows are also used to move the selection around, so 1&2 is a useful secondary binding, but if nothing is selected (or if the frame view is directly clicked), I feel like the arrow keys would be a more user-friendly binding. I imagine you don't want to overload the arrow keys, but in the situations I described, I can't imagine it'd be that confusing.

Also, Are there any plans to add saving (exporting) images made in GMS2? I recently made a sprite font in the GMS2 image editor, just so I could spend some time trying out the new editor, and copy-pasting 90+ images so I could use the result elsewhere (like 1.x projects I'm not ready to port over) was incredibly tedious. haha.
 

Mike

nobody important
GMC Elder
A lot of the keys are based around Deluxe Paint - which used 1 and 2 to step frame, and 3 and 4 for animation.

I wouldn't use arrow keys as you can use these while editing - mark a selection and adjust with the cursor keys etc. So it has to be different keys. Once you move from the arrow keys, any key will do. For right handed folk you want the key to be on the left side of the keyboard as you right hand will be resting on the mouse, so 1 and 2 are reasonable choices for flicking back and forth through frames.

Yeah, getting all frames back into a single image would be nice...
 

Aviox

Member
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. That makes sense. I guess once I get used to it, I'll probably prefer 1 & 2 to the arrow keys, for the reasons you described.
 
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